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+--- Thread: It's all about Pakistan now (/showthread.php?tid=116367)
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - August West - 05-04-2011
kj wrote:
I don't think it really accomplishes all that much
The celebration or the killing? I couldn't determine which you meant with your sentence.
As far as the Hedges article, he certainly draws an identifiable picture with a broad brush, but as I've learned, there is a great difference between theory and practice. His views on history and nationalism are obvious and lean to the theoretical, but his attempt to connect the theoretical to the applied shows all the difficulties one would expect. For example,
Hedges wrote:
And the killing of bin Laden, who has absolutely no operational role in al-Qaida – that’s clear – he’s kind of a spiritual mentor, a kind of guide … he functions in many of the ways that Hitler functioned for the Nazi Party.
Is he suggesting that if the Allies had the opportunity to assassinate Hitler, they should not? HUH?!? Even without the benefit of hindsight, I would have to disagree with that on several points.
kj wrote:
I guess it would make a liberal democrat choose between being liberal, or being a democrat. Or not, evidently. Or maybe principles vs politics? Interesting to see where people fall, but I can't see any way to reconcile the "liking" of both points of view. kj
As far as the relationship you seem to draw between the Hedges piece and the poll, you'll have to be clearer.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - kj - 05-04-2011
Grace62 wrote:
[quote=kj]
Not from me you wouldn't. Don't have Fox News, wouldn't know where to find Rush, I don't even know who Michelle Malkin is. My only real feeling on the killing of OBL is that I'm uncomfortable with the celebration, and I don't think it really accomplishes all that much, other than good pr for Obama.
A liberal friend of mine "liked" both these articles within a couple hours of each other, yesterday:
http://www.truth-out.org/chris-hedges-speaks-osama-bin-laden%E2%80%99s-death/1304343151
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/03/us-binladen-poll-idUSTRE74252O20110503
I guess it would make a liberal democrat choose between being liberal, or being a democrat. Or not, evidently. Or maybe principles vs politics? Interesting to see where people fall, but I can't see any way to reconcile the "liking" of both points of view. kj.
If you have facebook connections to know that something is getting "liked" and internet links, you have Fox news, Rush, and pretty much everything else.
Your comment doesn't make any sense.
But agree on not being comfortable with celebrations of death, but I understand the profound sense of relief for people who have suffered because of this man.
Thanks. If I get a hankerin' for it (I won't), I guess now I know it's there. I have a hard time believing you can't see how one might perceive a conflict between "liking" both points of view. Maybe you can reconcile the two, but I don't know how. kj.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - Grace62 - 05-04-2011
kj,
did you have a conversation with your "liberal friend" about why they "liked" both articles? Why not ask them. Maybe they liked the font, the author, who knows? I can't speak for a stranger, you'd best ask your friend.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - kj - 05-04-2011
Thumbs up for the idea that the u.s. using violent means in the middle east is counter-productive and a thumbs up for obama using a violent approach in the middle east. Hard to reconcile. My read is you can choose the liberal point of view (our violent approach in the middle east has been counter-productive), or you can support the democrat (obama) in his success (being violent in the middle-east), but not both. I would imagine someone could make this more clear, but probably not me. kj.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - kj - 05-04-2011
Grace62 wrote:
kj,
did you have a conversation with your "liberal friend" about why they "liked" both articles? Why not ask them. Maybe they liked the font, the author, who knows? I can't speak for a stranger, you'd best ask your friend.
I knew you'd ask. No, I very infrequently discuss politics with "irl" friends. I want them to stay friends. So your answer to my question is that it doesn't make sense to you, and that he's probably the only person who supports both. Good enough. kj.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - Grace62 - 05-04-2011
I didn't read the links and have no idea what they're about. Sorry.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - kj - 05-04-2011
Fwiw, I'd say the Republican/conservative equivalent is that they are stuck between celebrating OBL's death, and patting Obama on the back. Reconciliation is attributing the success to someone else (bush, cheney, whatever). Either way, Obama just did a very republican/conservative/moderate thing. Again. Status quo. kj.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - kj - 05-04-2011
>>Is he suggesting that if the Allies had the opportunity to assassinate Hitler, they should not? HUH?!? Even without the benefit of hindsight, I would have to disagree with that on several points.
I don't get it either, but I think a fair summary of his point of view would be that u.s. violence in the middle east is counter-productive.
As far as killing OBL, I'm not sure exactly what the tangible pay-off is. Maybe it will prevent future attacks, but at the same time, he hasn't been real successful in the last 10yrs., so I don't know. And then there's the killing people over there spawns hundreds more terrorists mantra. kj.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - Grace62 - 05-04-2011
kj wrote:
Fwiw, I'd say the Republican/conservative equivalent is that they are stuck between celebrating OBL's death, and patting Obama on the back. Reconciliation is attributing the success to someone else (bush, cheney, whatever). Either way, Obama just did a very republican/conservative/moderate thing. Again. Status quo. kj.
Mature Republican leaders have had no problem congratulating the Commander in Chief while expressing relief (call it what you want) that OBL is finally dealt with. Sure they want to acknowledge that a lot of intelligence work was done during the Bush years. Fair enough. However, there is no way for them to call Obama's action "Republican" without acknowledging that this successful mission has laid bare once again Bush's foreign policy failures. At this point would it be possible to say the desire to bring OBL to justice wasn't really partisan? Everybody wanted this.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - Carnos Jax - 05-04-2011
kj, brotha, you're making up stuff now...don't fall to Dak's level. This is all really simple. Obama saw a very specific opportunity and he took it, that's a far cry from having a belligerent attitude like GW did. You might even have a fringe few that may be confused, but that doesn't apply to most Democrats. Applying the same logic then you can say Republicans are racist pricks (among other extrapolations).