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+--- Thread: It's all about Pakistan now (/showthread.php?tid=116367)
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - $tevie - 05-04-2011
Pam wrote:
[quote=kj]
>>At this point would it be possible to say the desire to bring OBL to justice wasn't really partisan? Everybody wanted this.
No, that's not fair to say. People have been saying for quite some time that violence is counter-productive in the middle-east . Now it is exactly what we've needed all this time, just because a democrat is doing it. I think it's pretty apparent when people put politics above principles, and this is yet another example. It's sad, no matter which side does it. kj.
Trying to force a country to be democratic by invading them (think Iraq) is not the same as going into Pakistan to get a wanted criminal. Especially since bin Ladin really WAS in Pakistan, as opposed to certain WMDs we were told about...
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - Grace62 - 05-04-2011
$tevie wrote:
You really can't tell the difference between a full-tilt war in a foreign country, and killing the leader of Al Qaeda?
That's a great question for about 40% of our country right now.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - August West - 05-04-2011
kj wrote:
People have been saying for quite some time that violence is counter-productive in the middle-east .
Who has been saying that the assassination of bin Laden would be counter productive? Please cite the individuals who have said this.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - kj - 05-04-2011
Grace62 wrote:
[quote=kj]
>>At this point would it be possible to say the desire to bring OBL to justice wasn't really partisan? Everybody wanted this.
No, that's not fair to say. People have been saying for quite some time that violence is counter-productive in the middle-east . Now it is exactly what we've needed all this time, just because a democrat is doing it. I think it's pretty apparent when people put politics above principles, and this is yet another example. It's sad, no matter which side does it. kj.
Again, you're trying to say that opposition to Bush's disastrous 7 year foreign policy and for support for this single mission are incongruous. They are not.
And you're trying to say that I'm arguing Bush's tenure and Obama's are strictly equivalent. No one would say that. But just saying Obama only did the "wrong thing" once isn't a very good defense. Btw, you still haven't explained how Bush's foreign policy was responsible for the "bloody school seizure in Russia and violence related to the disputed Indian territory of Kashmir", as well as the rest of the supposed increase in terrorist activity during Bush's terms, so you can't state it again as if you've established it as fact. You never did. kj.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - $tevie - 05-04-2011
Good God, you are as stubborn as you are imaginative.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - Grace62 - 05-04-2011
kj wrote:
[quote=Grace62]
[quote=kj]
>>At this point would it be possible to say the desire to bring OBL to justice wasn't really partisan? Everybody wanted this.
No, that's not fair to say. People have been saying for quite some time that violence is counter-productive in the middle-east . Now it is exactly what we've needed all this time, just because a democrat is doing it. I think it's pretty apparent when people put politics above principles, and this is yet another example. It's sad, no matter which side does it. kj.
Again, you're trying to say that opposition to Bush's disastrous 7 year foreign policy and for support for this single mission are incongruous. They are not.
And you're trying to say that I'm arguing Bush's tenure and Obama's are strictly equivalent. No one would say that. But just saying Obama only did the "wrong thing" once isn't a very good defense. Btw, you still haven't explained how Bush's foreign policy was responsible for the "bloody school seizure in Russia and violence related to the disputed Indian territory of Kashmir", as well as the rest of the supposed increase in terrorist activity during Bush's terms, so you can't state it again as if you've established it as fact. You never did. kj.
Goodness. May I toss your word salad?
I haven't said anywhere that Obama did the wrong thing, nor that his "tenure" is strictly equivalent to Bush's.
I have also never claimed that Bush's foreign policy was responsible for the Kashmir incident. His policy was directly responsible for the increase in al Qaeda activity following the invasion of Iraq.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - kj - 05-04-2011
August West wrote:
[quote=kj]
Thumbs up for the idea that the u.s. using violent means in the middle east is counter-productive and a thumbs up for obama using a violent approach in the middle east.
I believe that you are misreading the article. Hedges writes about an imperialistic nationalism, citing the string of US bases in the Middle East and the large scale invasions(from my memory, I didn't reread the link.). I think if you look at Hedges' article you will see that he did not focus on Obama, and IIRC did not even mention him(again I didn't reread). Hedges is portraying bin Laden's assassination as a footnote to an entirely greater process. You are trying to compare two different scenarios because they both contain violence and it does not apply in this case.
This is the name of the article, "Chris Hedges Speaks on Osama bin Laden’s Death". I think we all know who is being credited with finally getting him. It is interesting he doesn't ever mention Obama's name though. I bet he's a democrat!
How does Obama's action begin to establish a different approach? It doesn't. Status quo. kj.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - Grace62 - 05-04-2011
kj wrote:
How does Obama's action begin to establish a different approach? It doesn't. Status quo. kj.
As soon President Obama preemptively and unilaterally invades and occupies another country that of course has not attacked us, has no clear exit strategy, and uses falsified information to convince the country that he's doing the right thing, then you can feel free to say that he has the same foreign policy approach as Pres. Bush. Until then? No.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - OWC Jamie - 05-04-2011
Grace62 wrote:
[quote=billb]
fortunately the mideast is slowly attritioning the oppressive autocratic regimes - from whence the support for extremism thrives
true
( the brainwashed call this Bush's foreign policy failures as if repeating it often enough will make it so)
what? Bush propped up Mubarak and the others...Your comment makes no sense.
well, I'm so glad there's nothing more to the whole of the mideast than mubarak.
I never mentioned Mubarak - probably why you can't make sense of it.
Re: It's all about Pakistan now - kj - 05-04-2011
>>I have also never claimed that Bush's foreign policy was responsible for the Kashmir incident.
You actually did by posting an article that supposedly supported your claims. You've got the rest wrong, but not because I wrote it incorrectly, but because you read it incorrectly. kj.