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+--- Thread: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it (/showthread.php?tid=134047)
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - Grace62 - 03-27-2012
cbelt3 wrote:
Grace.... interesting assumption, and remarkably false. Given that there are certain religious sects which refuse to use 'modern' 'health services'.
Our society has dealt with that, and our courts have decided we can charge those people with neglect and abuse if they don't get health care for their children.
again, people are claiming losses of freedom that they don't have
ACA does not exempt Christian Scientists, but it does exempt the Amish and other groups that object to all insurance and/or have their own community-based systems of paying for care (IOW, they don't expect the rest of us to cover them as we cover the uninsured now.)
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - haikuman - 03-27-2012
Health Care for everyone in the USA should come from tax dollars "One and Done"
Tax dollars should also be bundled to improve and modernize all Public Health Facilities.
Gross misuse of tax dollars deprives everyone.
ymmv *(:>*
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - rankandfile - 03-27-2012
cbelt3 wrote:
And, of course, Justice Thomas never has anything to ask. I expect he prefers to simply read about it later.
Do you have proof that Thomas can read?
As I recall, he misunderstood the filing instructions of his disclosure form...repeatedly for 20 years.
He's bought and paid for. We need to get 5 of 8.
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - mattkime - 03-27-2012
samintx wrote:
The "loss of freedom" to quote you is the government mandating we buy it or be fined if we don't. Pretty simple issue.
I suffer a similar loss of freedom every time i get into a car and i'm compelled by law to buckle my seatbelt.
oppression!
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - Gutenberg - 03-27-2012
I am compelled by law to buy automobile insurance. I am compelled by law to buy homeowner's insurance. Stop whining, righties. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
Oh, waitaminit. That was a Democrat said that. Well, dang. I guess the Republicans were busy writing up subsidies for polluting, job-offshoring, tax-evading corporations.
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - OWC Jamie - 03-27-2012
Grace62 wrote:
because we have human bodies.
We're all in it. The gov't isn't forcing you to have a human body. You're going to buy healthcare services. They have to be paid for.
The nature of the American insurance industry is unique. It can't be compared to buying cars or broccoli or gym memberships. There is no slippery slope, no loss of freedom.
That's the line justice Kennedy seems to be taking. We'll see if he follows that to an argument in support of the gov't case, and can convince Roberts, who seems to be worried about his court's reputation as being overly politicized.
Tax every breath of fresh air while you're at it.
After all, if it weren't for big bro' we wouldn't have any.
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - Mr Downtown - 03-27-2012
Why are people so confused about the difference between powers of the state and powers of the federal government?
Seat belt laws, auto insurance, homeowner's insurance (really? compelled by law?) are state laws. Your state legislature can require you to do virtually anything.
This mandate was passed by Congress, which has only certain enumerated powers. The power to require people to do things (called the police power) is not one of them.
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - Grace62 - 03-27-2012
Mr Downtown wrote:
Why are people so confused about the difference between powers of the state and powers of the federal government?
Seat belt laws, auto insurance, homeowner's insurance (really? compelled by law?) are state laws. Your state legislature can require you to do virtually anything.
This mandate was passed by Congress, which has only certain enumerated powers. The power to require people to do things (called the police power) is not one of them.
Commerce clause.
Congress can regulate interstate commerce and commercial matters that have national importance.
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - cbelt3 - 03-27-2012
Grace62 wrote:
Our society has dealt with that, and our courts have decided we can charge those people with neglect and abuse if they don't get health care for their children.
Society ? No. Courts. And those rulings are specific for Children, and only in very specific cases. What about Adults ? Under the new law, an adult that fails to obtain health insurance is fined. Not jailed for self-negligence. Or are you thinking that should be the case ? :biggrin: (yes, I know... I'm not serious about that)
Gute- Your State requires you to have car insurance, OR, in most cases, to post a bond. (some people do this). All you need is liability against hurting others. You typically are not required to insure your own car against damage by other sources. Your Bank requires you to have home insurance, not the State, typically. At least Ohio doesn't.. dunno about your State.
I think we can all agree that the law is a definite case of legislative sausage making.... cut away all the good stuff and leave the fat and floor sweepings. The active role the health insurance companies had in writing the law from within the Congressional offices was rather hideous, IMHO.
I am personally benefiting from the law.. my 24 year old daughter is now insured through my employer, as is my 21 year old dropout son. And that's good. My healthcare costs are still going up faster and faster. Is that caused by the law ?
No. It's caused by what the law did NOT address. Waste, stupidity, greed, and manipulation of medicine by ignorant and uncaring governments and businesses.
Re: The gov't isn't forcing anyone into the health insur. market, we're all already in it - Grace62 - 03-27-2012
cbelt3 wrote:
My healthcare costs are still going up faster and faster. Is that caused by the law ?
No. It's caused by what the law did NOT address. Waste, stupidity, greed, and manipulation of medicine by ignorant and uncaring governments and businesses.
You really aren't familiar with this law at all are you?
It addresses very specifically a multitude of problems that lead to higher costs.
You are using emotion and hyperbole to describe the problems, I'm not agreeing with your characterization, just the reality that there are serious inefficiencies and some profit motive that is harmful to consumers.
also, I mentioned above that there ARE religious exemptions in the bill. However, as a society (through legal expression in courts, yes, that's how we put weight behind our values) we acknowledge the good and benefit of health care, we don't acknowledge that going without it is a societal good. Sorry Christian Scientists. They can fight their $95 annual penalty in court if they are among the 3% of Americans who might be subject to it.