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+--- Thread: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... (/showthread.php?tid=161710)
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - $tevie - 12-17-2013
Chakravartin wrote:
[quote=Grateful11]On one hand it bothers me that people live like this but on the other hand I see this as a never ending cycle of working the system and sitting up your
children to be in the system is just wrong in my mind.
Seems like she got the short end.
Only once, when she was in her early 30s, had she lived without government assistance. She had moved her children into a two-bedroom apartment near the Southwest waterfront and signed a lease for $925, working as a home health aide during the day and as a prep cook at RFK Stadium at night. "Climbing the ladder," she said, but then came the reality of what that meant. The increase in her income disqualified her from food stamps, and buying food with cash left nothing to pay the gas bill, and cutting off the heat made the winter seem endless, and the combination of the cold house and the 60-hour workweeks aggravated her arthritis, damaged her heart and compelled her to quit work and apply for disability.
For some people, the game is rigged against them.
There seems to be a horrible sort of netherworld where people earn enough to be cut off from assistance yet not enough to be able to live a decent, let alone nice, life. I suppose we got there because of our hyperparanoia that someone out there is getting some free heat or free food who does not deserve it. I hate the idea that hundreds of thousands of people suffer because we are so concerned that a few creeps may game the system. There's no way they are receiving anything approaching the, oh, say, $2,281,347,113 which Wells Fargo stills owes the taxpayers. We need to figure out a better way than cutting people off from assistance just because they have begun to earn pauper's wages.
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - Lemon Drop - 12-17-2013
Requiring the payment of living wages to begin with and having universal affordable health care would be good places to start.
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - $tevie - 12-17-2013
Lemon Drop wrote:
Requiring the payment of living wages to begin with and having universal affordable health care would be good places to start.
(tu)
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - hal - 12-18-2013
I remember when I was on unemployment for a short time in the 80s. The bene's were very slight. Not quite enough to pay rent + food, but was good enough to get by since I has a puny bit of savings. Before I found full time employment, I took a couple of temp jobs. They were only 1-3 days, but I thought that something was better than nothing and it might lead to something full time.
Didn't lead to anything full time and every cent that I earned was deducted from unemployment payout. Perhaps things have changed since the 80s, but I can't think of a better way to discourage people from looking for work.
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - Grateful11 - 12-18-2013
I guess it would have been best if I had not brought any of this up at all.
vision63 thanks for your very moving insight into your life. It took courage to put that on here.
I'll admit I've never known anyone that has had to live in the "system". It seems like a world away from
the world I've lived in and so I apologize for any feelings I may have hurt or toes I may have stepped on.
The world I grew up was far from being affluent that's for sure. Having worked with my hands as a skilled
laborer I've never was without work during my entire career. I better let this one go, I've obviously said
too much already.
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - hal - 12-18-2013
Grateful11 wrote:
I guess it would have been best if I had not brought any of this up at all.
vision63 thanks for your very moving insight into your life. It took courage to put that on here.
I'll admit I've never known anyone that has had to live in the "system". It seems like a world away from
the world I've lived in and so I apologize for any feelings I may have hurt or toes I may have stepped on.
The world I grew up was far from being affluent that's for sure. Having worked with my hands as a skilled
laborer I've never was without work during my entire career. I better let this one go, I've obviously said
too much already.
I'm not willing to condemn you yet. I think the OP took courage too. You had a POV that you knew would not be popular and you put it out there. You've shown an ablitiy to listen to others and adjust your opinion as well. The language you used was appropriate - you didn't make any broad declarations, you presented your opinion as an opinion - not as fact.
Frankly - THIS is the kind of thread I'd like to see more of. People actually talking about stuff - not just smacking each other around with the brilliant text they've found on the net that proves once and for all that their opponent is a nazi.
well done, I say...
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - vision63 - 12-18-2013
Grateful11 wrote:
I guess it would have been best if I had not brought any of this up at all.
vision63 thanks for your very moving insight into your life. It took courage to put that on here.
I'll admit I've never known anyone that has had to live in the "system". It seems like a world away from
the world I've lived in and so I apologize for any feelings I may have hurt or toes I may have stepped on.
The world I grew up was far from being affluent that's for sure. Having worked with my hands as a skilled
laborer I've never was without work during my entire career. I better let this one go, I've obviously said
too much already.
What you said was genuine, honest and open. Everything you said were legitimate expressions of thought. We already know that you are a good good person. A thoughtful loving family man. We all have great respect and love for you. Like Hal said, what you said is what we want to hear. Honesty. Dialog.
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - davester - 12-18-2013
Epic story vision! Thank you so much for sharing it. In comparison to you and the lady in the OP's linked article, I have lived a rather trouble free life. However, I am only a generation away from living in a much more destitute situation. My mother grew up in a coal mining village that was rated as the most impoverished village in Europe, a place where food was scarce, indoor plumbing was virtually unknown, and people were burdened with lots of offspring to feed due to the lack of birth control. For many of her peers, life has not been good and they are still drifting aimlessly on public assistance, unable to see the way out. Somehow my mum caught a glint of a way to get out of that world (perhaps a eureka moment such as the one you encountered with your UCLA connection), and she worked like a dog to take advantage of it. I am one of the lucky benefactors. It sounds as though the lady in the OP link has some desire and some drive to move forward, but the path to making a big move to free herself from the bonds of dependence is eluding her (no doubt due largely to her large flock of dependents). I wish her luck.
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - vision63 - 12-18-2013
davester wrote:
Epic story vision! Thank you so much for sharing it. In comparison to you and the lady in the OP's linked article, I have lived a rather trouble free life. However, I am only a generation away from living in a much more destitute situation. My mother grew up in a coal mining village that was rated as the most impoverished village in Europe, a place where food was scarce, indoor plumbing was virtually unknown, and people were burdened with lots of offspring to feed due to the lack of birth control. For many of her peers, life has not been good and they are still drifting aimlessly on public assistance, unable to see the way out. Somehow my mum caught a glint of a way to get out of that world (perhaps a eureka moment such as the one you encountered with your UCLA connection), and she worked like a dog to take advantage of it. I am one of the lucky benefactors. It sounds as though the lady in the OP link has some desire and some drive to move forward, but the path to making a big move to free herself from the bonds of dependence is eluding her (no doubt due largely to her large flock of dependents). I wish her luck.
Sounds like you have a rich history. You never know how you affect lives. Grandparents, neighbors, strangers. Your mom just sounds like she was strong and determined. Once you see daylight and you can "envision" some success, it's on. Clearly that's what happened to your mother. I always figure, you might be smarter than me, more capable in every way, but I will not be out worked. Nobody can beat me at that.
I know many people like the woman in that story. Entrenched, self concept cemented in inferiority. It takes a lot to turn that around. Her kids though, that's where the opportunity is, however I believe anybody can change if they want it badly enough. Some people can't imagine not getting assistance. One woman I know is trying, but she's so broken down. She gets high and hides out in the apartment that she will be removed from soon. Her name is Faith and I've had long conversations with her about having just that.
She literally doesn't know what to do. She is over 50 and has a great personality. I told her to get dressed, put her teeth in, and took her to Target where she filled out an application on their computer screen. Even taking that step seemed impossible to her. I don't know if she's run afoul of the law, but I know Target has a policy that will allow people with a criminal history to apply. Hopefully it works for her.
Re: Normally I'm all for helping those in need but I have read this article and well... - Lemon Drop - 12-18-2013
Encouraging one another is about the best we can do in this world.