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+--- Thread: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... (/showthread.php?tid=170842)
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - sekker - 09-07-2014
Filliam H. Muffman wrote:
[quote=Racer X]
I agree, if my 10,000 hour CFLs are lasting 2500, who is getting the CFLs that last 40,000?
Not 40,000 but after I had 4 out of 12 die quickly, the rest of my CFLs have lasted about 15,000. One of my three LEDs died about 6,000, the other two are still going.
I had one of my first 5 LEDs die within the first 2 years, well below 6000 hours.
I think the issue is the electronics. AC to DC converter plus capacitors. Just like we see with lower quality CFLs, I suspect we are going to see some LEDs where the base fails well before it should.
I also wonder whether 'dirty power' would be worse on some of these power converters than others.
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - Fritz - 09-07-2014
sekker wrote:
I think the issue is the electronics. AC to DC converter plus capacitors. Just like we see with lower quality CFLs, I suspect we are going to see some LEDs where the base fails well before it should.
I also wonder whether 'dirty power' would be worse on some of these power converters than others.
I'd tend to agree. I don't think the base, and power supplies in general of consumer devices, are up to snuff.
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - Speedy - 09-07-2014
Cheap Chinese junk. My eight ceiling fluorescent tubes are 20+ years old and all are going strong. I bought good bulbs.
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - thermarest - 09-07-2014
I'm totall with Bimwald on this. I do have hopes that LEDs come down a lot in price, and that color is tweaked little by little. I have yet to meet an LED with nice color for indoor use. Nothing I've seen in cfl or led is clsoe to to the expensive GE Reveal incandescents. At current prices even if LEDs do last the touted lifespan the $ savings are not significant.
The best flourescent I've encountered for color is this oddball from GE. I have several lamps that use it, but they are discontinued and I've never seen another product that uses it. Too bad. The bulb is 55w, and by subjective measure looks to be at 3x as bright as a 250w incandescent. Very pleasing white color.
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - Yoyodyne ArtWorks - 09-07-2014
sekker wrote:
Felt CFLs have given that technology a bad reputation.
I redid my entire house seven years ago with mostly CFLs.
At year four, I rounded up the defective bulbs for recycling - they were all one style Felt except for a bulb I dropped onto the floor.
All of my other brands have been great, including those that get used all the time and are in ceiling fans, etc.
I've had the exact same experience, the Feits have been junk but the other brands I've bought at Home Depot (nVision, Commercial) have been fine.
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - mrlynn - 09-07-2014
Bimwad wrote:
And lest anyone think I'm one of those incandescent-hoarding luddites, I'm not.
But the disadvantages aren't as heavily outweighed by the advantages that were promised, one of them being extended life. Yet they require additional upfront cost, require careful recycling, suffer under normal duty conditions, and have poorer light quality.
Other recent household advancements haven't fared as poorly. Modern washers and refridgerators are expensive, but do make palpable differences in terms of resource and cost savings, while carrying few, if any, additional compromises.
As Clara asked, "where's the beef?"
We incandescent-hoarders are not Luddites. If anything the Luddites are those fools who believe that incandescent lightbulbs are going to destroy the planet. I'm not buying CFLs for their well-known deficiencies, and see no advantage to LEDs until they're as cheap as incandescents, and produce as pleasant a light at night.
As for washers and other appliances, the dealers tell me that 'modern' ones last only about a third as long as older ones.
/Mr Lynn
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - Bill in NC - 09-07-2014
Heat - CFL or LED helps when heat's a problem.
Upstairs bathroom was miserable until I replaced the 6 bulbs above the vanity with LEDs.
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - sekker - 09-07-2014
Mr Lynn, there are good CFLs and LEDs that you honestly could not see a difference in color in a masked test.
As one of those crazy fools who agrees with 97% other scientists in the world that we are definitely heating up the planet due to excess CO2 emissions, I think giving up incandescents is one of the least intrusive change one can make to reduce a household's energy use. And yes, both CFLs and LEDs will reduce your electrical bill overall, even with the increased initial capital costs.
I also think newer appliances are much lower quality than older models, so much so that the increased manufacturing costs (of lasting shorter) seems to me to potentially outweigh some of their energy savings. Though front-loading clothes washers have such added savings due to lower water use that they could cost more/load in electricity they would still be cheaper to use.
It's all a balance. We are approaching 9 billion co-inhabitants on Spaceship Earth within the next generation!
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - Buzz - 09-07-2014
We have lots of "under achieving" CFL's (read that, prematurely failed) in the cabinet awaiting proper disposal. The transition to LED's has been dependent on the failure of old bulbs and the price (drop) of LED's. Color fidelity has become more of an issue as equiv wattage gets higher. Sometimes in multi-bulb fixtures, mixing color temps provides a more pleasing viewing aura. The overall palette seems to be improving, so it remains to be seen how accurate the longevity of LED's is compared to CFL's... I kinda feel cheated w/ CFL's, but enough of them were subsidized so it's not worth making a stink over. Incandescents were a lot more predictable given their longer history, but watts is watts. I get the feeling LED's are gonna win Light Wars™... just not sure which brand is gonna come out on top.
==
Re: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... - Chakravartin - 09-08-2014
thermarest wrote: I have yet to meet an LED with nice color for indoor use. Nothing I've seen in cfl or led is clsoe to to the expensive GE Reveal incandescents.
Overall, I'm very pleased with the GE LED 60w replacements that I picked up this year.
There are a couple of problems with them: They are brighter than the 60w bulbs that they replaced and looking directly at them can be blinding, even with the "soft white" coating, so they may not be suitable for all 60w applications. (I wouldn't use these for a lamp over my bed.)
But I'm using them in pedestal lamps pointed towards the wall. They're perfect for that application.
I use CFLs in a few rooms where I don't spend a lot of time, but I've come to loathe them in any application. They may start out bright, but they dim and the color changes over the space of a few months and they burn out just as quickly if not more than cheap incandescents do. They emit RF interference and "buzz" and many of them emit high-pitched whining noises. Plus, they can't just be tossed in the garbage, but need to be treated as hazardous waste because of the mercury. (My community's recycling center allows CFL dropoffs on Saturdays, along with toxic chemicals and CRTs.)
I think we'll be picking up new tricks over the next several years, figuring out which types of bulbs and brightness are best for which applications. I hope that LEDs continue to evolve for more lighting applications and continue to drop in price.