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+--- Thread: 538 - status of Sanders voters (/showthread.php?tid=193762)
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - August West - 08-08-2016
Sorry, August West - voting for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson or god help us Drumpf is a fool's errand. There's no defending it.
There certainly is quite a history defending a citizen's right, one might say obligation, to vote their choice, there is also a philosophical history that defends the value of opposing viewpoints, and hardly least, do we need to explain the consequences of ideological purity?
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - davester - 08-08-2016
There's nothing twitish about being an idealist, but I agree that Bernie-or-busters (as opposed to Bernie supporters) planning to vote for Trump to "bring the system down" are childish and over-entitled (or anarchists, though isn't that the same thing?).
I do think that it's somewhat of a cruel joke that in our pluralist duopoly there are more than two candidates listed on federal ballots. Perhaps there should be a warning label, like "all votes for third party candidates will be thrown in the trash bin, please vote accordingly". So called "protest votes" have zero effect on anything if history is any guide. Their only effect is to make the protest voter feel smug.
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - rjmacs - 08-08-2016
August West wrote:
A party crony insulting dedicated Bernie-ites isn't the way to win their votes.
I am the very last person here to be defending Clinton as a great candidate or someone whose politics I generally like. I'm also making exactly zero comments about how well or poorly she and the party handled Bernie's campaign. That, like many things, is irrelevant to this discussion.
August West wrote:
Sorry, August West - voting for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson or god help us Drumpf is a fool's errand. There's no defending it.
There certainly is quite a history defending a citizen's right, one might say obligation, to vote their choice, there is also a philosophical history that defends the value of opposing viewpoints, and hardly least, do we need to explain the consequences of ideological purity?
You know, and I'm sure it's clear, that I'm not implying that anyone should be prevented by the government or by anyone else from voting for whomever they choose. I'm saying anyone who uses their vote to choose a third-party candidate is acting recklessly and probably doesn't appreciate how voting works.
The key potential consequence of ideological purity in this case is that Drumpf is elected president. That's it. It's not complicated. The voting booth is not a good or effective place to make an ideological statement or lodge a protest against the system. The voting booth is a practical place where real-world decisions with actual consequences are made.
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - davester - 08-08-2016
rjmacs wrote:
The key potential consequence of ideological purity in this case is that Drumpf is elected president. That's it. It's not complicated. The voting booth is not a good or effective place to make an ideological statement or lodge a protest against the system. The voting booth is a practical place where real-world decisions with actual consequences are made.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Actions have consequences. Bad consequences can have significant repercussions either to yourself or to others. By adulthood, most (but obviously not all) understand this.
Also, does anybody else find it odd that Max keeps posting a rather endearing short video of Hillary and Bill Clinton that makes her look human and funny? Normally he posts unflattering and juvenile images like his compatriot billb.
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - $tevie - 08-08-2016
Y'all should listen to the entire On The Media episode which I posted the other day. It discusses everything being discussed on this thread and is really very interesting even if not tailored for those with ADHD.
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - davester - 08-08-2016
$tevie wrote:
Y'all should listen to the entire On The Media episode which I posted the other day. It discusses everything being discussed on this thread and is really very interesting even if not tailored for those with ADHD.
I tried to multiple times but couldn't get it to play.
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - August West - 08-08-2016
rjmacs wrote:
[quote=August West]
A party crony insulting dedicated Bernie-ites isn't the way to win their votes.
I am the very last person here to be defending Clinton as a great candidate or someone whose politics I generally like. I'm also making exactly zero comments about how well or poorly she and the party handled Bernie's campaign. That, like many things, is irrelevant to this discussion.
August West wrote:
Sorry, August West - voting for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson or god help us Drumpf is a fool's errand. There's no defending it.
There certainly is quite a history defending a citizen's right, one might say obligation, to vote their choice, there is also a philosophical history that defends the value of opposing viewpoints, and hardly least, do we need to explain the consequences of ideological purity?
You know, and I'm sure it's clear, that I'm not implying that anyone should be prevented by the government or by anyone else from voting for whomever they choose. I'm saying anyone who uses their vote to choose a third-party candidate is acting recklessly and probably doesn't appreciate how voting works.
The key potential consequence of ideological purity in this case is that Drumpf is elected president. That's it. It's not complicated. The voting booth is not a good or effective place to make an ideological statement or lodge a protest against the system. The voting booth is a practical place where real-world decisions with actual consequences are made.
First, please try to keep your quoting straight, you have attributed statements to me which I have not authored.
Secondly, I bring up ideological purity in relation to your judgment of others who do not hold your ideological viewpoint, to wit, "...how many Sanders supporters are ideological twits...". Those sort of statements might seem inconsequential to you, but they are not. They are a characterization more akin to the hard right you seem to disdain. What is the difference between your marginalization of Sanders' supporters and Hair Furor's marginalization of the left as a whole?
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - August West - 08-08-2016
$tevie wrote:
Y'all should listen to the entire On The Media episode which I posted the other day. It discusses everything being discussed on this thread and is really very interesting even if not tailored for those with ADHD.
I must have missed your link. I'll look for it.
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - $tevie - 08-09-2016
davester wrote:
[quote=$tevie]
Y'all should listen to the entire On The Media episode which I posted the other day. It discusses everything being discussed on this thread and is really very interesting even if not tailored for those with ADHD.
I tried to multiple times but couldn't get it to play.
That's too bad. Damn.
Re: 538 - status of Sanders voters - $tevie - 08-09-2016
davester wrote: Also, does anybody else find it odd that Max keeps posting a rather endearing short video of Hillary and Bill Clinton that makes her look human and funny? Normally he posts unflattering and juvenile images like his compatriot billb.
I like this version even better:
