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+--- Thread: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality (/showthread.php?tid=86359)
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - sekker - 10-21-2009
wow - anything that AT&T, Verizon and Comcast agree on cannot be good for the consumer.
Not all companies are ruining this country. Regulations that grant monopolies ruin our country.
There is no worse technology in my house than my ridiculous cable box. And I have no functional leverage to replace it if I want to see my local baseball team on tv, let alone true premium channels like HBO. This appliance has an off button - that does not lower its power consumption by even 1 watt! It's huge, hot, ugly and really does not work well at all.
Telephones were the same way until the Carter decision. Cell phones were basically the same way until the iPhone broke the carrier monopoly thru innovation. Now there are an array of new, iPhone-like phones on their way. The carriers are now a commodity.
AT&T, Verizon and Comcast all want to block the development of new internet devices - ironically like the iPhone.
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - M A V I C - 10-21-2009
sekker wrote:
wow - anything that AT&T, Verizon and Comcast agree on cannot be good for the consumer.
Agreed
AT&T, Verizon and Comcast all want to block the development of new internet devices - ironically like the iPhone.
Well, I wouldn't say they want to block development of new internet devices. I would say they just want to make sure that anyone who tries to do so has to give them a cut.
sekker wrote: Not all companies are ruining this country. Regulations that grant monopolies ruin our country.
I wouldn't even say monopolies are bad. However, the misuse of power that a monopoly holds, that's certainly not good.
Just as there are lobbyists that are fighting for consumer rights, environmental protection... there are corporations that are trying to do things for the good of all (eg, OWC and their "green" initiatives.)
I think a big disconnect with those issues is the idea that personal values don't apply to business. Some lobbyists use this as an excuse to do things they know aren't right. "It's not personal, it's just business." Well, businesses end up impacting everyone personally as well, so the actions of a business most certainly need to take personal values into account.
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - Don Kiyoti - 10-21-2009
M A V I C wrote:
[quote=decay]
lobbyists are ruining America.
i'm not kidding.
Everyone who expresses their opinion is a lobbyist. I suppose you also think corporations are ruining America too.
That's a painfully simplistic way of looking at things. If you think you're a lobbyist, just try getting a meeting with your senator about a law you'd like enacted or blocked. For the purpose of this discussion you know perfectly well what a lobbyist is, and playing semantics with the definition is just ducking the point.
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - M A V I C - 10-21-2009
Don Kiyoti wrote:
[quote=M A V I C]
[quote=decay]
lobbyists are ruining America.
i'm not kidding.
Everyone who expresses their opinion is a lobbyist. I suppose you also think corporations are ruining America too.
That's a painfully simplistic way of looking at things. If you think you're a lobbyist, just try getting a meeting with your senator about a law you'd like enacted or blocked. For the purpose of this discussion you know perfectly well what a lobbyist is, and playing semantics with the definition is just ducking the point.
Ok, I admit it's overly simplistic. But to group all lobbyists (by definition) together is stereotypical and thus inaccurate. It's not just playing semantics, it's a simple way to point out that the root of the problem is not what people are pointing their fingers at.
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - decay - 10-21-2009
i'm talking about highly-paid lobbyists whose JOB it is to influence lawmakers, to bend them to the will of the corporations, to benefit ONLY the corporations.
in other words, Washington is for sale to the highest bidders, but since the lawmakers aren't paid directly, it's legal & apparently OK.
it's not what our Founding Fathers envisioned, and i don't think they'd agree with it either. (i can't be certain, though)
as for monopolies being illegal, explain how Ticketmaster is allowed to stay in business. there are no other national ticket sellers for a national touring act to sell through.
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - M A V I C - 10-21-2009
decay wrote:
i'm talking about highly-paid lobbyists whose JOB it is to influence lawmakers, to bend them to the will of the corporations, to benefit ONLY the corporations.
in other words, Washington is for sale to the highest bidders, but since the lawmakers aren't paid directly, it's legal & apparently OK.
Right, and there are also people who fit the same description, but the corporation is an environmental group (and thus benefits the people.) So lobbyists as a whole are not all bad. (And by definition, a lobbyist is someone who attempts to influence lawmakers.)
So there are lobbyists who do good. I'm just pointing out that it's not the lobbyists that are the root cause of the problem, since not all of them are bad.
it's not what our Founding Fathers envisioned, and i don't think they'd agree with it either. (i can't be certain, though)
I agree.
as for monopolies being illegal, explain how Ticketmaster is allowed to stay in business. there are no other national ticket sellers for a national touring act to sell through.
I can't answer that one and I dislike ticketbasdard as much as you.
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - DaviDC. - 10-21-2009
M A V I C wrote:
[quote=N-OS X-tasy!]
Seems to me there's only one person on this thread so far who doesn't understand what's being said.
P.S. Absolutely agree with decay.
I'm sure there are many that can help you understand. If you'd like to discuss it, let me know.
You seem to be so totally clueless at times.
And no, I don't want to discuss it.
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - gabester - 10-21-2009
Let's flip this on its head a little bit and say, "Hey, treating corporations (which are paper entities) as if they are human beings with human interests is destroying the best things about living in this country for human beings."
A corporation doesn't need to eat, sleep, breathe clean air or drink clean water. It doesn't have quality of life. The people who work in corporations do, but often the ones running them exhibit sociopathic behavior and use the power of their corporation to hire lobbyists to act directly against the healthy interests of human beings.
To that end I am definitely opposed to a company telling its employees to act as lobbyists on its behalf because, while it may improve the short term quality of life for those employees by enhancing profits it will have long term detrimental impact by restricting access to information.
Let the telcos and cablecos have regulated access to information, it won't be long before it takes 20 minutes to load "non supported" webpages. Then you can kiss democracy goodbye because all of our information sources will be owned by large corporate entities interested in doing what's best for their bottom line.
g=
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - M A V I C - 10-21-2009
gabester wrote: The people who work in corporations do, but often the ones running them exhibit sociopathic behavior and use the power of their corporation to hire lobbyists to act directly against the healthy interests of human beings.
And that's an example of what I'm getting at. It is not very often that those running corporations "exhibit sociopathic behavior and use the power of their corporation to hire lobbyists to act directly against the healthy interests of human beings." The vast majority of corporations don't do that. Based on the facts, corporations aren't the problem.
Re: AT&T enlists employees to oppose Net neutrality - M A V I C - 10-21-2009
DaviDC. wrote:
[quote=M A V I C]
[quote=N-OS X-tasy!]
Seems to me there's only one person on this thread so far who doesn't understand what's being said.
P.S. Absolutely agree with decay.
I'm sure there are many that can help you understand. If you'd like to discuss it, let me know.
You seem to be so totally clueless at times.
And no, I don't want to discuss it.
Well, then my reply was received as intended. If you want to discuss the topic from a factual point of view, that's your choice.