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+--- Thread: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? (/showthread.php?tid=244153)
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - vision63 - 07-25-2020
sekker wrote:
[quote=vision63]
Our democracy lay in the hands of its citizens and not it's politicians. When evil is flitting about and around us, it's because we opened the door and invited it in.
This is sort of true. We are in a 'representative democracy'. It is the JOB of the Senate to defend our Constitution. In that, our system has failed.
Human beings that view it differently than you and I. I believe that the fight for democracy is the fight for truth. There's what you think, there's what I think and there's what it is. When we fail to see the truth, we fail our country.
If I hire a house painter and he "sells" me his services so well that I hire him without knowing how well he paints - and he does a terrible job - how can I blame him for not doing his job? I can be mad at him, but it's my fault for not vetting him and being fooled. The only way to fix it is to ask myself, "why did I do that?"
We know why we elected their Senators. They don't get there without us. We were and are the safeguard.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - sekker - 07-25-2020
vision63 wrote:
[quote=sekker]
[quote=vision63]
Our democracy lay in the hands of its citizens and not it's politicians. When evil is flitting about and around us, it's because we opened the door and invited it in.
This is sort of true. We are in a 'representative democracy'. It is the JOB of the Senate to defend our Constitution. In that, our system has failed.
Human beings that view it differently than you and I. I believe that the fight for democracy is the fight for truth. There's what you think, there's what I think and there's what it is. When we fail to see the truth, we fail our country.
If I hire a house painter and he "sells" me his services so well that I hire him without knowing how well he paints - and he does a terrible job - how can I blame him for not doing his job? I can be mad at him, but it's my fault for not vetting him and being fooled. The only way to fix it is to ask myself, "why did I do that?"
We know why we elected their Senators. They don't get there without us. We were and are the safeguard.
We are the safety net of last resort, that's for sure!
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - Lemon Drop - 07-25-2020
numbered wrote:
[quote=sekker]
It is the JOB of the Senate to defend our Constitution. In that, our system has failed.
And not to belabor it, it this has happened precisely because the MAGAs like Trump better than the GOP Senators. The Senators are terrified of Trump tweeting about them.
This is, I think, what causes the Lincoln guys the most pain. From a tweet this morning, Reed Galen, key Lincoln guy:
"Six years ago I helped @DanSullivan_AK with debate prep in his race for #aksen. I could not have believed at the time he would have fallen so far, violating his oath and failing to defend the Constitution.
2020 is all about @DrAlGrossAK"
Look at Dan Sullivan on the issues in 2014. Look at his record. NOBODY would be surprised that he's a Trump butt kisser. NOBODY. These LP guys are so full of it.
But yes please take note of the type of politician they like. Dan is it.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - Racer X - 07-25-2020
sekker wrote:
[quote=Racer X]
Pretty fair assesment.
The system is, right now, (I quickly looked it up early this morning) The Cabinet and VP can declare the pres unfit, and transfer power to the VP> Starts the clock ticking. The Pres has 4 days to dissagree and present his case, if able too. Then Congress and the House vote if the 25th Amendment move is just. This is within the week. In all this, from the first movement from the Cabinet, the pres is theoretically powerless. This can all be wrapped up in a week, and from the first minutes of the movement, the VP gets sworn in as acting President. And if he/she isn't fit, then the Speaker becomes Pres.
But these people need to step up, and think of others, and not themselves. They need to ignore the possible impact to their careers, and think of the country, and what's best for our survival and our recovery.
They aren't going to step up. They haven't stepped up.
Please verify this. The 25th can resolve this and allow a course correction in less than a week. But they won't.
A tool has no value if you don't use it. They are powerless unless they use the tools our Founding Fathers gave us. They won't pick it up. They won't swing the hammer.
Pence will never do this.
And there is nothing in the system to jump past the VP if they won't stand up. What's wierd, and bad, is that the Cabinet is in control of the removal, and they aren't even elected. They were given that position by the Pres. In times past, Cabinet members would challenge. Not now.
There isn't anything that allows the Legislative branch to stand up as One, as representatives of US, the country, to say ENOUGH. you're done. And vote him/her out as Pres. Right now it's all in the hands of appointed cronies to the Pres.
Honestly, an Amendment allowing this is needed.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - numbered - 07-25-2020
There isn't anything that allows the Legislative branch to stand up as One, as representatives of US, the country, to say ENOUGH. you're done. And vote him/her out as Pres.
Actually, that is precisely what impeachment and removal is meant to do.
The 25th process was more about what would/should happen if the President were incapacitated, but not dead. Imagine a stroke. It was not designed to handle malfeasance.
Also, the idea of a Senate confirmed cabinet played a role in thinking the cabinet would be a solid group. No one conceived of a bunch of 'acting' secretaries totally beholden to Trump.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - SteveG - 07-25-2020
That's right, folks.
The Senate Republicans had a chance to remove this insane criminal and they refused. Time for them to go as well.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - numbered - 07-25-2020
Lemon Drop wrote:
But yes please take note of the type of politician they like. Dan is it.
I do not think many of us would like this choices the Lincoln guys would make. I have not heard they have moderated their views.
Some have confessed that they regret some of their actions, much as Lee Atwater expressed regrets on his death bed. I am not sure I credit these apologies.
But unlike most of the GOP, these guys have decided that there is a line. I think that is something we should take advantage of.
Many on the left have a Leninist view that if you are not totally with us you are against us...and this hurt us in 2016. I don't think this can be risked this year.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - bfd - 07-26-2020
vision63 wrote:
We know why we elected their Senators. They don't get there without us. We were and are the safeguard.
100%. WE are the ones who did this, and to borrow a phrase from the dicktator, only WE can fix it. WE the People… and all of that.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - DeusxMac - 07-26-2020
Racer X wrote:
The Cabinet and VP can declare the pres unfit, and transfer power to the VP...
This Cabinet??? Highly unlikely!
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - Filliam H. Muffman - 07-26-2020
WE the people have been microtargeted by kleptocrats running ads on social media for five years. I don't have much hope for the country until money is forced out of the system to elect politicians.