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+--- Thread: do you sign your credit cards? (/showthread.php?tid=88309)
Re: do you sign your credit cards? - Doc - 11-24-2009
M A V I C wrote:
Actually, it's not legit. If the card isn't signed, it's not valid. If a card isn't signed by an authorized signer on the account, it's not valid. So "See ID" or some other person's signature are both invalid.
Initially, upon seeing "See ID" on a card, the merchant is obligated to ask that the customer sign the card and present supplemental government-ID to match the signature.
If the customer does not sign the card, but does present the ID, that does not obligate the merchant to refuse to process the transaction.
The main rule is that merchants cannot make presenting ID a condition of the sale. In this case, you as the customer have made presenting ID a condition of the sale. Once they've asked for you to sign the card and present ID, their obligation has been satisfied whether you sign the card or not. They may refuse service out of fear that they are violating their merchant's agreement, but if they've asked for the signature and ID they should not be liable for breach.
If you want to cover all your bases, sign the card AND write "ask for ID" on it.
Visa's security advisors will poo poo the "ask for ID" thing as something useless against fraud and in fact it may be so. But as has been pointed out, it leads to minor delays at checkout and to occasional confrontations with checkout clerks.
To me, this is a valuable result. If someone does steal my wallet, they're probably going to have no problem using my credit cards whether or not the cards are authenticated with my autograph... BUT those extra few seconds at the checkout counter present extra opportunity for a security camera to catch their faces and there is a (tiny) possibility that someone will catch a discrepancy when/if the thief flashes his/her ID.
Re: do you sign your credit cards? - Markintosh - 11-24-2009
Although the card company may refuse to take a card that is unsigned, I can refuse to do business with a company that won't accept my card that says "Ask for ID." I had an issue once at the post office and walked out, letting them know I would ship UPS instead. I walked out of a Macy's once that also insisted on the signature.
Re: do you sign your credit cards? - DRR - 11-24-2009
Doc wrote:
[quote=M A V I C]
Actually, it's not legit. If the card isn't signed, it's not valid. If a card isn't signed by an authorized signer on the account, it's not valid. So "See ID" or some other person's signature are both invalid.
Initially, upon seeing "See ID" on a card, the merchant is obligated to ask that the customer sign the card and present supplemental government-ID to match the signature.
If the customer does not sign the card, but does present the ID, that does not obligate the merchant to refuse to process the transaction.
The main rule is that merchants cannot make presenting ID a condition of the sale. In this case, you as the customer have made presenting ID a condition of the sale. Once they've asked for you to sign the card and present ID, their obligation has been satisfied whether you sign the card or not. They may refuse service out of fear that they are violating their merchant's agreement, but if they've asked for the signature and ID they should not be liable for breach.
If you want to cover all your bases, sign the card AND write "ask for ID" on it.
Visa's security advisors will poo poo the "ask for ID" thing as something useless against fraud and in fact it may be so. But as has been pointed out, it leads to minor delays at checkout and to occasional confrontations with checkout clerks.
To me, this is a valuable result. If someone does steal my wallet, they're probably going to have no problem using my credit cards whether or not the cards are authenticated with my autograph... BUT those extra few seconds at the checkout counter present extra opportunity for a security camera to catch their faces and there is a (tiny) possibility that someone will catch a discrepancy when/if the thief flashes his/her ID.
Go read your cardmember agreement Doc. I suppose signing it and writing "See ID" would technically be valid. But "See ID" alone with no signature, is invalid.
In the real world though, I'd say in 60% of my daily use, the card does not even leave my hand. And of the remaining 40% where I have to physically hand my card to someone, they don't bother to check the signature. I'd say one time in a hundred of using my card, do they look at the signature or the back of the card at all, and that's because the machine is slow and they're bored and just looking around.
Re: do you sign your credit cards? - DRR - 11-24-2009
Markintosh wrote:
Although the card company may refuse to take a card that is unsigned, I can refuse to do business with a company that won't accept my card that says "Ask for ID." I had an issue once at the post office and walked out, letting them know I would ship UPS instead. I walked out of a Macy's once that also insisted on the signature.
I've got some news for you - it's not your card, despite having your name on the front of it. It belongs to the issuing bank.
Re: do you sign your credit cards? - John B. - 11-25-2009
As a counter to Markintosh's point, I'm a business owner who bills roughly 45% of revenue via credit/debit card. If someone shows up and says they will only do business with me if I process their credit card in terms that violate my merchant agreement, I'll be happy to direct them to a competitor. Simply put, I don't need the potential chargeback (if it turns out you were intentionally end-running the card terms) or loss of merchant agreement (if you're an auditor for one of the payment networks) hassles.
As I said in a previous post, fewer and fewer transactions involve physically presenting the card to a person processing the transaction. "Ask for ID" is a weak security measure attempt, at best, that may result in your card being rejected during a legitimate transaction.