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+--- Thread: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? (/showthread.php?tid=244153)
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - Racer X - 07-26-2020
DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=Racer X]
The Cabinet and VP can declare the pres unfit, and transfer power to the VP...
This Cabinet??? Highly unlikely!
Yes. We are in an unprecedented situation where the process put in place as a safeguard will never take place.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - RgrF - 07-26-2020
Filliam H. Muffman wrote:
WE the people have been microtargeted by kleptocrats running ads on social media for five years. I don't have much hope for the country until money is forced out of the system to elect politicians.
The country will have to go through a complete ecnomic collapse before that could happen and that may yet be the case. If we would adopt the Euro version of Democratic Socialism and
Speaking of the world - governments seem to be on a path toward totalitarianism becoming the norm, we alone can if not reverse at least halt that trajectory.
As Lincoln prophesied, a house divided, cannot stand. We can't save anyone unless we first save ourselves.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - Lemon Drop - 07-26-2020
numbered wrote:
[quote=Lemon Drop]
But yes please take note of the type of politician they like. Dan is it.
I do not think many of us would like this choices the Lincoln guys would make. I have not heard they have moderated their views.
Some have confessed that they regret some of their actions, much as Lee Atwater expressed regrets on his death bed. I am not sure I credit these apologies.
But unlike most of the GOP, these guys have decided that there is a line. I think that is something we should take advantage of.
Many on the left have a Leninist view that if you are not totally with us you are against us...and this hurt us in 2016. I don't think this can be risked this year.
I was with you there until you called me a Commie. I'm involved pretty deeply in Dem politics and I NEVER heard anybody say in 2016 "if you are not totally with us you are against us." In fact, the Hillary campaign launched many ads nearly identical to the ones the Lincoln Project uses - in an effort to point out Trump's many faults and to lure moderate Republicans to her side. She went out of her way to attract moderates, and it didn't work. She also called Trump's voters stupid and evil, as the LP does, and we know how that turned out. Dems never stopped criticizing her for all of that, and yet now that this group of conservative men are doing the same thing, Dems are suddenly in love with that strategy. Interesting.
I found a good summary of what I believe about The Lincoln Project, link below. If they convert any undecided Trump leaners into Biden voters then that's great, obviously. I just don't think it's likely they will have any meaningful impact on the election. Their assured impact is money and future work for themselves. Which is perfectly legit.
https://newrepublic.com/article/158344/viral-impotency-lincoln-project
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - PeterB - 07-26-2020
Lemon Drop wrote:
[quote=numbered]
[quote=Lemon Drop]
But yes please take note of the type of politician they like. Dan is it.
I do not think many of us would like this choices the Lincoln guys would make. I have not heard they have moderated their views.
Some have confessed that they regret some of their actions, much as Lee Atwater expressed regrets on his death bed. I am not sure I credit these apologies.
But unlike most of the GOP, these guys have decided that there is a line. I think that is something we should take advantage of.
Many on the left have a Leninist view that if you are not totally with us you are against us...and this hurt us in 2016. I don't think this can be risked this year.
I was with you there until you called me a Commie. I'm involved pretty deeply in Dem politics and I NEVER heard anybody say in 2016 "if you are not totally with us you are against us." In fact, the Hillary campaign launched many ads nearly identical to the ones the Lincoln Project uses - in an effort to point out Trump's many faults and to lure moderate Republicans to her side. She went out of her way to attract moderates, and it didn't work. She also called Trump's voters stupid and evil, as the LP does, and we know how that turned out. Dems never stopped criticizing her for all of that, and yet now that this group of conservative men are doing the same thing, Dems are suddenly in love with that strategy. Interesting.
Let's be honest; if a male had been doing all the things Hillary had been doing, s(he) might have won.
As evidence of the bias that we all possess, have a look at this: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/interactives/strong-men-caring-women/
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - RgrF - 07-26-2020
I was with you there until you called me a Commie.
Well you have been hanging out here and reports are their are Bernie Sanders supporters hereabout. That ought to be enough to resurrect the moribund but not forgotten House Un-American Activities Committee.
It was good enough in 1938 so ought to be good enough now - maybe select Deven Nunes or Louis Gohmert as co-chairs and prosecutors?
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - Lemon Drop - 07-26-2020
RgrF wrote:
I was with you there until you called me a Commie.
Well you have been hanging out here and reports are their are Bernie Sanders supporters hereabout. That ought to be enough to resurrect the moribund but not forgotten House Un-American Activities Committee.
It was good enough in 1938 so ought to be good enough now - maybe select Deven Nunes or Louis Gohmert as co-chairs and prosecutors?
Good point. Guilt by association and all.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - Lemon Drop - 07-26-2020
PeterB wrote:
Let's be honest; if a male had been doing all the things Hillary had been doing, s(he) might have won.
As evidence of the bias that we all possess, have a look at this: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/interactives/strong-men-caring-women/
Ain't it the truth. Great link, thank you for sharing that.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - PeterB - 07-26-2020
Lemon Drop wrote:
[quote=PeterB]
Let's be honest; if a male had been doing all the things Hillary had been doing, s(he) might have won.
As evidence of the bias that we all possess, have a look at this: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/interactives/strong-men-caring-women/
Ain't it the truth. Great link, thank you for sharing that.
I was motivated to post it also by virtue of that recent post that someone made here with a video showing a male Trumper, now admitting that he made a mistake, saying that he voted for Trump because he hated Hillary.
What I've noticed (as a male) is the extreme detest of Hillary, both amongst men and women, but especially amongst men (something that I did not share, obviously). As a male, I will call out my fellow men and say ... is the reason you detested her and didn't vote for her is BECAUSE she was female ... if the same words/actions/qualifications had been coming from a male candidate, then you wouldn't have detested "her" and would have voted for "her" ... in which case, your choice is based in sexism, pure and simple.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - Filliam H. Muffman - 07-26-2020
PeterB wrote: I was motivated to post it also by virtue of that recent post that someone made here with a video showing a male Trumper, now admitting that he made a mistake, saying that he voted for Trump because he hated Hillary.
What I've noticed (as a male) is the extreme detest of Hillary, both amongst men and women, but especially amongst men (something that I did not share, obviously). As a male, I will call out my fellow men and say ... is the reason you detested her and didn't vote for her is BECAUSE she was female ... if the same words/actions/qualifications had been coming from a male candidate, then you wouldn't have detested "her" and would have voted for "her" ... in which case, your choice is based in sexism, pure and simple.
This is the final point in my list of reasons why Bernie would have won against the Pumpkin Dotard, where Clinton lost.
Re: Where are the safe guards of our democracy? - vision63 - 07-26-2020
Filliam H. Muffman wrote:
[quote=PeterB]I was motivated to post it also by virtue of that recent post that someone made here with a video showing a male Trumper, now admitting that he made a mistake, saying that he voted for Trump because he hated Hillary.
What I've noticed (as a male) is the extreme detest of Hillary, both amongst men and women, but especially amongst men (something that I did not share, obviously). As a male, I will call out my fellow men and say ... is the reason you detested her and didn't vote for her is BECAUSE she was female ... if the same words/actions/qualifications had been coming from a male candidate, then you wouldn't have detested "her" and would have voted for "her" ... in which case, your choice is based in sexism, pure and simple.
This is the final point in my list of reasons why Bernie would have won against the Pumpkin Dotard, where Clinton lost.
First of all, she got 3 million "more" votes than Trump. The country voted for "her" vision, not Trump's.
Secondly, why everyone wants to ignore voter suppression, foreign interference/hacking and raw cheating is curious. Had an entire investigation that proved all of this and eventually impeached the president. That should be the first concern.
Thirdly, Bernie just got himself slaughtered 2 times running for president. If he was so popular, why didn't he win those contests? And don't give me any kind of rigging bs because that never happened.
Fourthly, we could never have some sort of European styled socialism in the United States. This country is too racist and too xenophobic to have the kind of unity required to achieve those ends. European countries were able to do it because they had homogenous populations with basically the same ethnicities during the times they developed their systems. Until we essentially become one people here, it'll never happen. It's a miracle that we have the ACA.
This country could collapse economically, it's not going to do so for the super wealthy and the gigantic corporations and we're their virtual slaves.
People are desperately fomenting to have Mark Zuckerberg's name removed from San Francisco's general hospital. That's a reasonable request to me because he only gave $75 million dollars. I don't feel like that was enough to have the entire 150 year old hospital named after him. My point however, is where are they doing all the fomenting? On Facebook. His product. Virtual slaves. I swear our forum is the only free zone left on the internet.
All we can do at this point is reduce our pain and see to it that people can live their best lives currently possible. We have to resolve these identity issues as a nation. What's going on now is not doing it.
We live by whims of the deplorable. Anyone that had a problem voting for HIllary, then they're just as much the enemy of the people than the deplorable. The pain people would suffer due to them not wanting to support Clinton or Biden is basically collateral damage to them.