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+--- Thread: Franken pulls ahead in recount (/showthread.php?tid=68728)
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - mikeylikesit - 12-21-2008
So Kerry and Dukakis are at fault for not responding effectively to lies and smears. The original liars are just politicians doing their thing? That position supports the position that All's fair in love, war and politics.
I reject that position as I think did Mr. Obama during the last campaign. Hopefully the electorate will come to punish those who go back there.
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - Mike Sellers - 12-21-2008
mikeylikesit wrote:
So Kerry and Dukakis are at fault for not responding effectively to lies and smears. The original liars are just politicians doing their thing? That position supports the position that All's fair in love, war and politics.
I reject that position as I think did Mr. Obama during the last campaign. Hopefully the electorate will come to punish those who go back there.
Obviously, he didn't reject it at all.
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - mikeylikesit - 12-21-2008
He came prepared. The idea that all's fair is what he rejected. I could have been clearer but alas...
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - Black Landlord - 12-21-2008
Obama was able to find a middle ground. He found ways to defuse the smears without inadvertently validating them with undue attention, or appearing to be on the defensive. When he did take the time to respond, as in the race speech, he managed to turn it around into an opportunity to explain himself and let people know what he was about.
That is not to say that there were not times that he chose a non-response (example-- overhead projector).
I will never get over my dismay when GHWB repeatedly declared Dukakis a "card carrying member of the ACLU" and Dukakis failed to respond.
Dukakis could have very easily just taken a minute to explain what "ACLU" stands for (the Bush camp was counting on folks not even knowing) and why one would want to support it. But no, he "took the high road" and refused to dignify the smear with any response.
As time and history has shown, that was not the way to respond to swift-boating.
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - kanesa - 12-23-2008
I don't think Minnesota will have a senator in office in January. The legal battles will continue for months. Whoever wins will never be seen as the winner IMO. Elections like this just shows how difficult it is to count every vote. No wonder the public views elections so negatively. "My vote doesn't matter."
I predicted Coleman will win in the end.
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - swampy - 12-23-2008
"Elections like this just shows how difficult it is to count every vote"
Which begs the question...Should every vote be counted? Duplicate votes? Votes by dead people? Votes that have been tossed because they were not filled out correctly? Votes that were late? Votes from aliens? Votes from people who are not residents of Minnesota? Votes that come from the trunk of a car? Votes by felons who, by state law, have lost their voting rights?
Personally, I think we need to go back to square one. Everybody be required to go back and re-register showing proof of citizenship and residence. The only way you should be able to register is by going to your local county election office, in person, and proving you are eligible. No more 'motor voter', no more ACORN enrollments or enrollments through agencies that travel in a bus. Geeez. And maintain a national voter database which is especially important in states like Florida where people vote in person in one state and via absentee in another. Issue a holographic voter registration card with photo.
I'm just wanting to find ways to eliminate voter fraud and assure that my vote is not canceled by someone not eligible.
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - kanesa - 12-23-2008
I don't believe in making hinderances to vote. We should be making it easier. The problem with many of these ballots is even though there is paper trail, people don't know how to fill out a ballot correctly and coherently.
I think Minnesota uses the same system we do in Madison. You have to draw a line to complete the arrow but some people don't read the directions or ask for help. They put X's on the space or circled the name or crossed out a name. I wouldn't want to be the judge of these ballots. I saw some where people drew pictures on the ballots. How are you suppose to take these votes seriously.
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - Greg the dogsitter - 12-23-2008
kanesa wrote:
I think Minnesota uses the same system we do in Madison. You have to draw a line to complete the arrow but some people don't read the directions or ask for help. The put X's on the space or circle the name or cross out a name. I wouldn't want to be the judge of these ballots. I saw some where people drew pictures on the ballots. How are you suppose to take these votes seriously.
Yay! Time to throw in something from one of my favorite sites!!
Presentation Zen: Think Design Doesn't Matter? (Link is about butterfly ballots and stuff.)
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - swampy - 12-23-2008
Kanesa..."We should be making it easier"
I totally disagree with that. Making it easier opens up all kinds of abuse and fraud. Look at ACORN for heaven's sake. Registering people to vote just because they were warm bodies. Registering Mickey Mouse? And you don't have a system in place to vet the registrations?
What you are saying is like saying make it easier for people to own homes and get loans with no job, no income and no assets! Look where that got us!
Sometimes the things we work hardest to obtain are the things we value the most.
Re: Franken pulls ahead in recount - kanesa - 12-23-2008
swampy wrote:
What you are saying is like saying make it easier for people to own homes and get loans with no job, no income and no assets! Look where that got us!
There is no logic is this statement. You are comparing apples with oranges. I believe Americans should not be given obstacles to vote.
Please show me statistics on voter fraud because I have not seen any that warrant the kind of system you suggest we have.