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+--- Thread: Gun owners commit less crime (/showthread.php?tid=285801)
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - DeusxMac - 03-26-2024
wowzer wrote:
This is the lies from Gifford:
"Proponents of this policy have dubbed it “constitutional carry” but there is nothing in the Constitution requiring unvetted, potentially dangerous, and untrained people be allowed to carry a gun in public."
Constitution of the United States
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
definitions:
Well regulated = firearms must be maintained in good working order
Militia = all civilians of the USA, not inclusive of the military.
keep and bear arms = all the offensive and defensive arms (as per SCOTUS) and the associated accessories like suppressors, magazines, and ammunition
Shall not be infringed = you cannot pass laws limiting arms that are in common use. Common use was defined in Caetano v. Massachusetts, 577 U.S. 411 (2016) where 200,000 items were considered in common use.
Thus, the people of the USA must keep their commonly owned firearms in good working order AND the government of the USA cannot infringe upon this right.
Hogwash!
The 2nd Amendment IN ITS ENTIRETY...
“II. A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
Furthermore...
“Article 1, Section 8. The Congress shall have Power...”
“To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the “Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;”
“To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;”
“Article 2, Section 2. The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;”
wowzer wrote: After the 14th amendment, which has pre-empted the States from their own versions of restrictive gun laws. As In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), Justice Clarence Thomas, while concurring with the majority in incorporating the Second Amendment against the states, declared that he reached this conclusion through the Privileges or Immunities Clause instead of the Due Process Clause.
The 14th Amendment itself says nothing about guns, it's much later Supreme Court rulings that have "interpreted" it to have implications.
We've gone round and round about the demonstrated historical impermanence of Supreme Court rulings:
Korematsu v. United States
Buck v. Bell
Plessy v. Ferguson
Dred Scott v. Sandford
...AND the 18th Amendment
wowzer wrote: Right now, many of the leftist inferior courts are deliberately being stupid and pretending not to understand that text, history, and tradition of 1789 rules the Second Amendment. To pretend otherwise is to fool yourself about the law as written.
Another Bare assertion fallacy – a claim that is presented as true without support, as self-evidently true, or as dogmatically true.
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - DeusxMac - 03-26-2024
wowzer wrote:
Highly correlative...
wowzer wrote: Brother, did you even look at the map? MS, LA, MS, and AL are NOT high population centers. Please think critically---these are AVERAGE salaries and AVERAGE firearm deaths. High density populations have nothing to do with the averages.
Also interesting tidbits from the maps are that New Mexico is fairly democratic in nature and yet has high average number of firearm deaths. It is also a very poor state on average.
How well does this map "correlate" with yours..
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - DeusxMac - 03-26-2024
wowzer wrote:
The one thing that most anti gunners don’t know is that police are not required to assist you. What really changed my mind for guns is readings the story of Joseph Lozito. He was stabbed multiple times by a madman on the subway car. There were 2 transit police in the same compartment. The cops were trailing the psychopath who also boarded the train as Lozito. The cops knew the psycho had already killed multiple people that same day. The psycho pulled a knife and stabbed Lozito multiple times. The cops did not come to Lozito’s aid. Instead, They went into the conductors booth. Eventually, several other passengers saved Lozito from the psycho. The cops then came out of the conductors booth to arrest the killer.
The courts have ruled that the police have NO DUTY to assist you. They are not required to respond, even if you are at risk of fatality. The cops are not obligated to be your first responder. So if you believe that the police will come to rescue you, please discard that Hollywood myth. The reality is that you are expected to defend yourself.
Time to post this again I guess...
The root motivation - and justification; conscious or subconscious - for gun ownership is FEAR.
- Fear of the “bad guy”
- Fear of the “others”
- Fear of all unknowns
This fear is expressed at three progressively obsessive states:
1. Caution: They might come!
2. Fear-manifest: They are coming!
3. Paranoia: They are here!
There are also ancillary, fear-related supporting motivations:
- Machismo/manliness - Fear of appearing weak, effeminate
- Peer pressure - Fear of being ostracized by friends, being excluded
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - wowzer - 03-26-2024
DeusxMac wrote:
The root motivation - and justification; conscious or subconscious - for gun ownership is FEAR.
- Fear of the “bad guy”
- Fear of the “others”
- Fear of all unknowns
This fear is expressed at three progressively obsessive states:
1. Caution: They might come!
2. Fear-manifest: They are coming!
3. Paranoia: They are here!
There are also ancillary, fear-related supporting motivations:
- Machismo/manliness - Fear of appearing weak, effeminate
- Peer pressure - Fear of being ostracized by friends, being excluded
Perhaps you don’t believe in being prepared? Since I grew up in the 1980’s, inner city Brooklyn, I’ve been on the wrong side of guns many times. Is it fear? Definitely not. It’s knowing that I’m responsible for my immediate safety. If you want to be a sheep , ready for slaughter by bad men with guns, be my guest. Just know that you have consciously made that decision. When you insist that I don’t have the right to defend my life and those whom I love, there is the problem.
As for all those other baited writing, good luck trying to call me fearful. I’ve trained karatedo for 40 yrs. An untrained person wouldn’t be able to touch me. A gun is different. If you aren’t prepared to defend yourself, then you blindly go through life pretending that you are safe. That’s your choice.
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - wowzer - 03-26-2024
DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=wowzer]
Highly correlative...
wowzer wrote: Brother, did you even look at the map? MS, LA, MS, and AL are NOT high population centers. Please think critically---these are AVERAGE salaries and AVERAGE firearm deaths. High density populations have nothing to do with the averages.
Also interesting tidbits from the maps are that New Mexico is fairly democratic in nature and yet has high average number of firearm deaths. It is also a very poor state on average.
How well does this map "correlate" with yours..
I don’t see much correlation. I still think that AVG income correlates with firearm deaths. But that’s not a surprise, lower economic status is associated w suicide and crime. They use guns for suicide and robbery.
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - wowzer - 03-26-2024
DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=wowzer]
Constitution of the United States
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
definitions:
Well regulated = firearms must be maintained in good working order
Militia = all civilians of the USA, not inclusive of the military.
keep and bear arms = all the offensive and defensive arms (as per SCOTUS) and the associated accessories like suppressors, magazines, and ammunition
Shall not be infringed = you cannot pass laws limiting arms that are in common use. Common use was defined in Caetano v. Massachusetts, 577 U.S. 411 (2016) where 200,000 items were considered in common use.
Thus, the people of the USA must keep their commonly owned firearms in good working order AND the government of the USA cannot infringe upon this right.
Hogwash!
The 2nd Amendment IN ITS ENTIRETY...
“II. A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
Furthermore...
“Article 1, Section 8. The Congress shall have Power...”
“To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the “Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;”
“To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;”
“Article 2, Section 2. The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;”.
You agree with me. The militia are not the armies or navies. The militia are the people from the various states.
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - DeusxMac - 03-26-2024
wowzer wrote:
[quote=DeusxMac]
The root motivation - and justification; conscious or subconscious - for gun ownership is FEAR.
- Fear of the “bad guy”
- Fear of the “others”
- Fear of all unknowns
This fear is expressed at three progressively obsessive states:
1. Caution: They might come!
2. Fear-manifest: They are coming!
3. Paranoia: They are here!
There are also ancillary, fear-related supporting motivations:
- Machismo/manliness - Fear of appearing weak, effeminate
- Peer pressure - Fear of being ostracized by friends, being excluded
Perhaps you don’t believe in being prepared? Since I grew up in the 1980’s, inner city Brooklyn, I’ve been on the wrong side of guns many times. Is it fear? Definitely not. It’s knowing that I’m responsible for my immediate safety. If you want to be a sheep , ready for slaughter by bad men with guns, be my guest. Just know that you have consciously made that decision. When you insist that I don’t have the right to defend my life and those whom I love, there is the problem.
As for all those other baited writing, good luck trying to call me fearful. I’ve trained karatedo for 40 yrs. An untrained person wouldn’t be able to touch me. A gun is different. If you aren’t prepared to defend yourself, then you blindly go through life pretending that you are safe. That’s your choice.
Thanks for proving my points.
miley-signs001:
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - DeusxMac - 03-26-2024
wowzer wrote:
[quote=DeusxMac]
[quote=wowzer]
Constitution of the United States
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
definitions:
Well regulated = firearms must be maintained in good working order
Militia = all civilians of the USA, not inclusive of the military.
keep and bear arms = all the offensive and defensive arms (as per SCOTUS) and the associated accessories like suppressors, magazines, and ammunition
Shall not be infringed = you cannot pass laws limiting arms that are in common use. Common use was defined in Caetano v. Massachusetts, 577 U.S. 411 (2016) where 200,000 items were considered in common use.
Thus, the people of the USA must keep their commonly owned firearms in good working order AND the government of the USA cannot infringe upon this right.
Hogwash!
The 2nd Amendment IN ITS ENTIRETY...
“II. A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
Furthermore...
“Article 1, Section 8. The Congress shall have Power...”
“To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the “Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;”
“To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;”
“Article 2, Section 2. The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;”.
You agree with me. The militia are not the armies or navies. The militia are the people from the various states.
Then please tell us what “well regulated Militia” and of what state you are a member?
When and where does your “well regulated Militia” organization and training take place?
Who are the officers with authority and responsibility for your “well regulated Militia”?
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - Mr645 - 03-26-2024
DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=wowzer]
[quote=DeusxMac]
[quote=wowzer]
Constitution of the United States
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
definitions:
Well regulated = firearms must be maintained in good working order
Militia = all civilians of the USA, not inclusive of the military.
keep and bear arms = all the offensive and defensive arms (as per SCOTUS) and the associated accessories like suppressors, magazines, and ammunition
Shall not be infringed = you cannot pass laws limiting arms that are in common use. Common use was defined in Caetano v. Massachusetts, 577 U.S. 411 (2016) where 200,000 items were considered in common use.
Thus, the people of the USA must keep their commonly owned firearms in good working order AND the government of the USA cannot infringe upon this right.
Hogwash!
The 2nd Amendment IN ITS ENTIRETY...
“II. A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
Furthermore...
“Article 1, Section 8. The Congress shall have Power...”
“To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the “Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;”
“To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;”
“Article 2, Section 2. The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;”.
You agree with me. The militia are not the armies or navies. The militia are the people from the various states.
Then please tell us what “well regulated Militia” and of what state you are a member?
When and where does your “well regulated Militia” organization and training take place?
Who are the officers with authority and responsibility for your “well regulated Militia”?
I am a member of Florida's well regulated militia
I train about twice per month, perhaps the federal government should subsidize trining as the cost of ammo and range time can be difficult with the horrible economic strain facing many Americans today
And I am solely responsible to protect my family.
Re: Gun owners commit less crime - DeusxMac - 03-26-2024
Mr645 wrote:
I am a member of Florida's well regulated militia
I train about twice per month,
...
:bs:
Even if you are, in fact, part of this collection of military wannabes, a bunch of gun lovers self-proclaiming themselves as such in no way constitute the real “well regulated Militia” of the 2nd Amendment whatsoever!
More like the Proud Boys than the actual National Guard!
https://flmilitia.org/index.html