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+--- Thread: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself (/showthread.php?tid=133889)
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - Bill in NC - 03-27-2012
The police officer wouldn't be arrested.
Your 'unarmed civilian' was a 17 year old, 6'2" attacker, who Zimmerman asserts broke his nose, then jumped him, slamming his head repeatedly into the sidewalk.
The witness seems to confirm Zimmerman was the one on the bottom.
Again, no evidence _yet_ contradicts the above version of events.
So exactly what is the probable cause for arrest?
Lux Interior wrote:
[quote=Bill in NC]
As for the latter, there would be significant civil liability for both the officer(s) and department for taking someone into custody (for simply being the shooter, without probable cause for an arrest), so I'm not surprised that didn't happen.
"simply being the shooter"
WTF?
He shot and killed an unarmed civilian. Even a cop who does that will get taken off the street pending an investigation.
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - Grace62 - 03-27-2012
Bill in NC,
Where is the shirt George Zimmerman was wearing when he shot Trayvon? The one with the grass stains and blood stains (if he shot Trayvon while Trayvon was on top of him he'd be covered with his blood, and his own blood would likely be there from this beating he says he got, and there would be grass stains on the back.) Where's the shirt? Were Zimmerman's alleged injuries photographed? Was the blood allegedly on him his own or Trayvon's?
That's the evidence that would corroborate Zimmerman's story. Did the police let him wear the shirt home?
How many shots were fired? What did analysis of the gun show?
Were all witness statements accepted by the police or were some rejected because they didn't match Zimmerman?
Was Zimmerman drunk or on any drugs at the time of the shooting?
Why wasn't a prosecutor brought to the scene, which is SOP in
Sanford, Fl when there is a homicide investigation?
Was a background check done on Zimmerman before they let him go?
Why did Sanford police not check Trayvon's cell phone or attempt to contact his family after his death?
Without having prosecutor look at all of the above evidence and all the witness statements, how did they reach the conclusion that he didn't need to be charged with anything?
Why did Sanford police leak the witness report from Zimmerman to an Orlando Sentinel who then reported it as fact, instead of making clear she was telling Zimmerman's story, got called out by MSNBC and had to edit her story, killing its tone and punch?
I know you don't like Trayvon Martin, but why the complete lack of interest in justice in this case?
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - Lux Interior - 03-27-2012
Bill in NC wrote:
The police officer wouldn't be arrested.
I didn't say he would be arrested. The shooting, however, would be investigated. The police in this case didn't seem to have an interest in investigating it.
Bill in NC wrote: Your 'unarmed civilian' was a 17 year old, 6'2" attacker
Why is Martin the "Attacker"?
Why do you choose to emphasize his height? What about his weight? because he weighed 140 pounds? Sounds like he was a stick. Zimmerman had 110 pounds on him.
Anyway, Zimmerman had a gun. This cancels out all height and weight advantages.
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - August West - 03-27-2012
Again, no evidence _yet_ contradicts the above version of events.
Nor is it a complete version of the events, so again, it is speculation.
Your 'unarmed civilian' was a 17 year old, 6'2" attacker
Where is your evidence of this? How do you know he was not defending himself from an armed stalker?
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - Grace62 - 03-27-2012
Bill in NC wrote:
His injuries are consistent with his version of events.
Again, given current evidence what crime do the local police charge him with, considering Zimmerman doesn't have to prove anything, but the local DA does?
I appreciate you don't like the guy, but exactly what crime has been committed?
ote]
The info above comes from Zimmerman's witness statement but you are stating it as though it's proven fact. What evidence backs it up? (see my comment above)
How did police verify the injuries or what caused them? Zimmerman wasn't taken to the hospital, which is SOP in these situations.
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - $tevie - 03-27-2012
For heaven's sake, the very fact that this has become a national issue PROVES that there should have been an immediate investigation. If indeed Zimmerman was innocent of murder, it would have been established already. IF he is not guilty of chasing Martin and forcing a confrontation, then this law has screwed Zimmerman totally and completely.
I can't believe that anyone thinks it is okay to release someone who kills someone with no more than a "Gee, sorry for your troubles, pal."
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - Grace62 - 03-27-2012
I think a combination of a really insane law in Florida, Stand your ground, that limits the ability of police and prosecutors to completely examine the case, plus what looks to be a police cover-up of a poorly conducted investigation, brought this case to where it is now. Obviously without the persistence of Trayvon's parents and the people who have supported them, the police would have gotten away with the cover-up.
The lack of evidence gathered at the scene may actually make it impossible to convict Zimmerman under Florida law. He has his story, and the police didn't gather evidence to either corroborate or refute it. The one minute time period between the end of the 911 call and when witnesses arrived is a mystery, and only George Zimmerman is alive to say what happened. And in that one minute Trayvon Martin was shot dead.
The Stand your Ground law does it make it possible for him to use the alleged scuffle as a defense, and his attorney says he would invoke that defense if Zimmerman is charged.
So the justice that may come out of this might only be a civil rights lawsuit against the Sanford police dept., and exposure of their incompetence. If that's what comes to pass, that will be much better than nothing.
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - Bill in NC - 03-27-2012
Again, the burden remains on the police, not on Zimmerman.
If they failed to secure his clothing at the time, that falls on them.
His version of events, not yet contradicted by the evidence, does not provide probable cause for his arrest.
If you disagree, please explain why you feel there is probable cause, keeping in mind that controversial law.
There are still plenty of issues to investigate, as you note in your other post, and the police certainly have the time to do so, to see if they contradict Zimmerman's version of events.
IIRC, a grand jury convenes on Thursday.
Grace62 wrote:
[quote=Bill in NC]
His injuries are consistent with his version of events.
Again, given current evidence what crime do the local police charge him with, considering Zimmerman doesn't have to prove anything, but the local DA does?
I appreciate you don't like the guy, but exactly what crime has been committed?
ote]
The info above comes from Zimmerman's witness statement but you are stating it as though it's proven fact. What evidence backs it up? (see my comment above)
How did police verify the injuries or what caused them? Zimmerman wasn't taken to the hospital, which is SOP in these situations.
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - Grace62 - 03-27-2012
You're right Bill, it's a serious police screw-up, aided and abetted by an insane law that stands in the way of justice.
However, you seemed to be accepting Zimmerman's story without benefit of evidence, and assume that people who want justice just don't like Zimmerman. The police had plenty of "probably cause" to do an much more complete investigation before accepting Zimmerman's story. Police can't accept testimony from a witness at the scene of a crime, they can collect evidence and statements but a prosecutor should make the call about charges.
It was your willingness to blindly accept Zimmerman's story and lack of interest in justice that was a bit startling.
I appreciate your updated comment though.
Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself - Bill in NC - 03-27-2012
I'm afraid without videotape we will never know 'the truth' in this case.
Those who want Zimmerman to be prosecuted, however, should not be pressing for a rapid arrest.
IIRC, that would allow his lawyer to invoke the 'stand your ground' law and press for a relief from a judge before any trial could take place.
Those who want to see him convicted should not be pressing autorities to pursue a course of action likely to result in a judge speedily granting both criminal & civil immunity to Zimmerman.
And yes, I remain skeptical of any rush to judgment after my own state's experience in the Duke Lacrosse case.
In that case, the actions of the police department mean that city still faces a multi-million dollar federal lawsuit from those arrested (and even if the city prevails at trial, the legal fees alone could be 7 figures)