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+--- Thread: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? (/showthread.php?tid=104242)
CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - cbelt3 - 10-01-2010
CNN Money talks about upping CAFE to 62 MPG in 2025
"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The federal government is looking to raise corporate average fuel economy requirements to something between 47 and 62 miles per gallon by 2025, according to documents released today by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Environmental Protection Agency."
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My opinion ? About DAMN time. Now that the US Govt "owns" the US Auto Industry, perhaps it's time to actually force this down their throats.
Re: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - Grace62 - 10-01-2010
Why are saying these cars would have to be "teeny?"
SUV's and trucks can have non-plug in hybrid engines. Chevy Tahoe is available as a hybrid, right?
This isn't about the weight of the car, it's about the type of engine.
Overall I don't think the problem is as much the manufacturers as it is our highly subsidized cheap gas. Why not drive a Tahoe alone to the grocery store if you're paying less than $3/gallon? Should be more like $8 to $12 a gallon to reflect the true cost of that fuel. That would change habits.
Re: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - Mac1337 - 10-01-2010
Grace62 wrote:
Overall I don't think the problem is as much the manufacturers as it is our highly subsidized cheap gas.
Once a gain a socialist espouse the view that if the government doesn't tax you it is like giving you money. Have you tried that line on your teen ager? Based on what model should gas cost $12 a gallon? At least be honest and come out and say you want to tax gas to the tune of $9 a gallon and then watch your pals in congress head for tall grass.
Re: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - Grace62 - 10-01-2010
Are you saying you don't understand how much we taxpayers subsidize the oil and gas industries? Nor the environmental, health and other retail costs of using gasoline?
Our government keeps the price of gasoline artificially low.
http://www.icta.org/doc/Real%20Price%20of%20Gasoline.pdf
Re: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - cbelt3 - 10-01-2010
Dak.. uh.. you DO realize that vehicle transportation is the most highly tax subsidized form of personal and freight transportation in the USA, right ? If you do the math from fuel exploration, production, distribution, roads, vehicle manufacturing, etc... I think you'll find that it works out that way.
While I disagree with Grace's proposal of changing behaviors through exceptional taxation, you do have to understand the overall economics of vehicles.
And Grace... I disagree with the proposal simply because the US grew up post WWII around the road and the automobile, and the infrastructure for any other method no longer exists. And we continue to build up our roads and ignore rails, etc... So we're stuck with roads. Hence the fuel efficiency standards. Which .. help...
Re: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - Grace62 - 10-01-2010
cbelt3 wrote:
Dak.. uh.. you DO realize that vehicle transportation is the most highly tax subsidized form of personal and freight transportation in the USA, right ? If you do the math from fuel exploration, production, distribution, roads, vehicle manufacturing, etc... I think you'll find that it works out that way.
While I disagree with Grace's proposal of changing behaviors through exceptional taxation, you do have to understand the overall economics of vehicles.
And Grace... I disagree with the proposal simply because the US grew up post WWII around the road and the automobile, and the infrastructure for any other method no longer exists. And we continue to build up our roads and ignore rails, etc... So we're stuck with roads. Hence the fuel efficiency standards. Which .. help...
I did not advocate higher taxes, did I?
I advocate ending the extreme corporate welfare of exceptional tax breaks and subsidization of this industry. Let them sink or swim on the open market, see what that does to prices.
Re: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - OWC Jamie - 10-01-2010
No more 1970 Fiats, please.
Re: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - Mac1337 - 10-01-2010
Grace, what you are advocating happened and brought the country to a stand still, and was partly to blame for the current recession. For that to happen all it took was the $4 a gallon gas, and you want $12? Insane. The situation was so dire that you could not hear a peep from advocates of higher gasoline tax, perhaps out of the fear of getting beat up.This economy needs cheap fuel to function.
And about that link, it is the most bogus study I have ever seen. So if someone gets hit by a car and checks in the emergency room, the cost will somehow finds its way into fuel subsidy? CRAP. It is just the opposite. It is the government that is sucking the oil companies dry. How many billions are they paying in taxes?
Re: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - Grace62 - 10-01-2010
Well Dakota you just made a very good argument for getting off oil. The financialization of the oil markets did help lead the recession of '08.
I favor letting the capitalist system work and you Dakota favor continuation of government subsidies and controls on the price of a consumer product, designed to keep that product artificially cheap. If we continue to do that, we're not letting our economy adjust to the reality of higher gasoline prices.
Over the past decade we've been pouring billions and billions into gas and oil subsidies, yet they have not increased domestic production and prices have fluctuated wildly, mostly in the upward direction.
Are we getting our money's worth? I don't think so.
I can't help it if you don't understand the study attached. There is really no dispute to the fact that the true cost of gasoline is way more than what we pay at the pump. Even your most conservative friends know and understand that. Perhaps one of them could explain it to you.
Re: CAFE Mileage ratings... How would YOU react to 62mpg ? - Mac1337 - 10-02-2010
I don't know what these billions of subsidies are. That report doesn't help. Give me specifics. I understand ethanol subsidies, milk subsidies , farm price support etc. The oil subsidies you are talking about are 5 steps removed from the source. By that logic potato chips are subsidized because people eat them, get a heart attack, check in emergency room and somewhere along the line the government picks up the tab. So a bag of potato chips should cost $10.
Oh, one more thing. When we used to pay $1 for gas, Europeans were paying $5, and did that for 30 years. Nothing came out of Europe. Nothing. All they did was to retrench and do with less. We had to wait for 30 years for Japanese to think of hybrids. What proves your theory wrong is that we got the hybrids with $2.50 a gallon gas.