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"Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - Printable Version +- MacResource (https://forums.macresource.com) +-- Forum: My Category (https://forums.macresource.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: 'Friendly' Political Ranting (https://forums.macresource.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=6) +--- Thread: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." (/showthread.php?tid=104495) Pages:
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"Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - Ted King - 10-07-2010 Heard about this on NPR this morning: http://www.slate.com/id/2268872/ People know we're living in a time of growing income inequality, Krugman told me, but "the ordinary person is not really aware of how big it is." The ignorance hypothesis gets a strong assist from a new paper for the journal Perspectives on Psychological Science: "Building a Better America—One Wealth Quintile at a Time." The authors are Michael I. Norton, a psychologist who teaches at Harvard Business School, and Dan Ariely, a behavioral economist (and blogger) at Duke. Norton and Ariely focus on the distribution of wealth, which is even more top-heavy than the distribution of income. The richest 1 percent account for 35 percent of the nation's net worth; subtract housing, and their share rises to 43 percent. The richest 20 percent (or "top quintile" ) account for 85 percent; subtract housing and their share rises to 93 percent. But when Norton and Ariely surveyed a group whose incomes, voting patterns, and geographic distribution approximated that of the U.S. population, the respondents guessed that the top quintile accounted for only 59 percent of the nation's wealth. ![]() Re: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - Spock - 10-07-2010 Norton and Ariely were astonished that 47 percent of respondents—remember these were all Americans—chose the pie chart depicting Sweden. They want to be ......... socialists. or Utopian. The amazing statistic is that only 10% voted for the status quo. Re: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - Gutenberg - 10-07-2010 That was an interesting story this morning. I was surprised at the disparity between supposed income distribution and the reality. People really haven't been paying attention. Essentially, since 1984 or so, if new wealth is created it goes straight into the pockets of the wealthy. The middle class is actually shrinking--the opposite of what was happening in our parents' day. Re: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - $tevie - 10-07-2010 The article also mentions that the number of people who consider themselves middle-class may be growing. The United States may possess a shrinking middle class, but the number of its citizens who consider themselves middle class (because they can't face that they're rich) may actually be growing. Perhaps a similarly large number consider themselves middle class because they can't face that they're poor. What we can conclude with some certainty is that counting dollars belonging to oneself relative to others is a much more emotionally distorted activity than counting jelly beans.In my opinion, people do indeed have a distorted idea of how middle class is defined. If $250,000/yr is middle class, and it seems that many people consider it to be so, then I'm terribly behind the times in how I define it. Re: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - $tevie - 10-07-2010 Spock wrote: I think this shows just how much of our economic discussions here (and elsewhere) are crippled by the fact that we are using terms we may not even understand. Re: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - cbelt3 - 10-07-2010 My local NPR also had a local bit on the 'definition of Middle Class'. And how many people who were normally self-defined as 'working class' or 'blue collar' are now defining themselves as 'middle class'. It was an interesting bit. Re: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - DaveS - 10-08-2010 No argument with the numbers or the basic concepts. But a question. The middle class is the 'engine' of this economy. We grew the economy from about 5 Trillion in 1982 to almost 13 trillion in 2005. How come the middle class has basically a zero net worth at the end of this? It wasn't that money didn't flow through our hands. Re: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - Ted King - 10-08-2010 Money flows through all kinds of hands. Who ends up with how much in a "free" market system is not, as I have often said in this forum, automagically equal to how much a person is merited to have (I think I've demonstrated that pretty convincingly in the past). Those who have most control of the flow have tended to keep more of it for themselves - sometimes merited because they had a direct hand in actually creating the extra wealth, but much, much more often the people who control the flow of a lot of money, like probably most financiers, end up with more than they merit (as I judge by my value system). Average wages since the mid 70's have actually decreased when adjusted for inflation: ![]() Wage earners in the last few decades have wanted to think that they should have increased incomes just like the rich. But their wages generally were mostly staying flat after a steep falloff in the early 80's -except for a bit of a rise in the 90's that leveled off again in the by the mid 00's - so to maintain the illusion of the American Dream of getting ahead they went into debt and ended up with zero (or negative) net worth. Re: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - mattkime - 10-08-2010 very interesting. which means that any gain in lifestyle is due to tech advantages and the lowering cost of goods. Re: "Real versus Imagined Wealth Distribution in the U.S." - Ted King - 10-08-2010 mattkime wrote: I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say "gain in lifestyle", but it is true that there have been significant increases in productivity - wealth creation - but evidently that increased created wealth did not lead to an increase in average wages: ![]() So who do you suppose ended up with the added income created by those productivity increases if it wasn't wage earners? |