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+--- Thread: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! (/showthread.php?tid=264821)
Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - Buzz - 03-05-2022
Wow. Garry Kasparov chatting w/ Anderson Cooper a little while ago was pretty convincing that WWIII *HAS* already started, and it's time for the USA + NATO + all worldwide democracies to return fire on the Putiniks w/ extreme prejudice. He upped the ante from his yesterday's comments. Why keep postponing the inevitable? Every day the world doesn't respond in kind, Putin becomes more emboldened. Kill them all, before they can kill more innocents, or us all. War is hell, no matter how inconvenient it might be.
Agree/Disagree?
Why, or why not?
==
Re: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - RgrF - 03-05-2022
In this case Kasparov is sounding like all those public figures who overnight became epidemiology experts during the early COVID outbreak. As a Russian and long standing Putin critic he's personally involved and as much as chess may be compared with war, it's not and he's no military expert.
If we're going to see a conflict that leads to a nuclear exchange, it shouldn't be triggered by the opinion of a chess grand mater.
Re: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - mattkime - 03-05-2022
It will be interesting to see if this changes, but it seems we're (western democracies) okay if Ukraine is lost to Russia. I do think this is more a European concern than a US one. We're all affected but they are neighbors.
To engage is to make one very specific bet - that Russia won't use its nukes. Even if the risk of that of happening is low, the downside is just way too large.
The current bet is that sanctions and some sort of prolonged battle in the Ukraine will backfire on Putin. Or maybe only sanctions in the long run. Could we cut ourselves off their energy supplies? Would someone else step in buy it? For market rate?
It will be interesting to see what kind of military build up will occur in Europe. Its practically guaranteed at this point.
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We don't fully know Putin's intentions. Part of it is the eastward expansion of NATO. There's also a Russian perspective that Ukraine is really just an accessory to Russia, rather than some of its own. Thats a reason for believing this is only about Ukraine.
Re: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - Don C - 03-05-2022
My take, being the expert that I am, is that Putin is willing to lay waste to Ukraine, "If I can't have it, then they certainly cannot have it either." it's his or nobody's. You certainly do not destroy everything that you expect to manage someday. Well, that might be too rational.
Re: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - Carnos Jax - 03-05-2022
mattkime wrote: I do think this is more a European concern than a US one. We're all affected but they are neighbors.
The problem with this kind of thinking is Russia doesn't seem to in the long term want to stop at Ukraine. Ultimately it will be the rest of Europe, then the world. This was the intention of Nazi Germany, the USSR, and so there's no reason to think it won't be with Putin's Russia. This is why we are so interested in nipping this problem in the bud.
mattkime wrote: Part of it is the eastward expansion of NATO.
I don't think this part is correct. Sure, it is the narrative Russia's weaving. But Russia doesn't honestly feel that NATO is a security/military threat to them. There is no line of logic that could lead to this conclusion, because, NATO's existence is the result of Russia's historical and continued aggression to its European neighbors, none of whom have ever showed aggression towards Russia. The real reason Russia wants NATO gone is so they can go unchecked in Europe in an attempt to reestablish their lost glory days.
Re: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - pdq - 03-05-2022
Let me spin a more hopeful message.
For better or worse, Putin (or Biden, if you prefer, or the two of them) have largely reunited the West, no small feat after Trump did his best to break it apart. But they are united in a non-military way, testing the proposal that the economic might of the West can make Putin’s moves on Ukraine a no-win proposition.
Has this ever worked before? I don’t know of an example I can point to, but the world has never been this interconnected and interdependent before. And as a friend of mine pointed out tonight, when was the last time a country was ever successfully occupied by a foreign force indefinitely?
Biden may be our era’s Chamberlain…or we may be on the verge of a new (and long awaited) world where leaders here and there may finally understand that military victories without the world’s support inevitably turn to dust. That certainly seems to be our experience.
Re: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - mattkime - 03-05-2022
Carnos Jax wrote: The problem with this kind of thinking is Russia doesn't seem to in the long term want to stop at Ukraine.
All depends upon whether you believe Ukraine is a special case. I'm not really qualified to say.
Re: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - Carnos Jax - 03-05-2022
That’s true matt. One thing that would clarify things for me is, how long does Putin have to live? He’s 70 now. Does he have enough time to rebuild Russia’s past? I wouldn’t think so. And if he doesn’t, is he aware of that? Only if his mental faculties haven’t deteriorated. In which case maybe he’s only after Ukraine then. But why go after just Ukraine. It would only make Russia poorer, with nothing to be gained. I don’t get it.
:dunno:
Re: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - vision63 - 03-05-2022
RgrF wrote:
In this case Kasparov is sounding like all those public figures who overnight became epidemiology experts during the early COVID outbreak. As a Russian and long standing Putin critic he's personally involved and as much as chess may be compared with war, it's not and he's no military expert.
If we're going to see a conflict that leads to a nuclear exchange, it shouldn't be triggered by the opinion of a chess grand mater.
NATO will not engage Russia directly in any way shape or form. I know how to play Chess, but I've never won a game because I eventually quit.
*oh unless, of course, being directly engaged by Russia.
Re: Kasparov: WWIII has already started.... WTF are we waiting for? Bomb the crap outa Russian troops already! - Lizabeth - 03-05-2022
It’s about the nukes. Once those are deployed by either side, you can’t step back ever…