Two questions about the Sprint iPhone

[Chakravartin]

Winston wrote:
[quote=RAMd®d]
There is only one version of the 4S so it will have a SIM card holder, and if it's an att phone, it will have a SIM card.

So Sprint and Verizon users could, with an unlocked phone, use the CDMA side here, and then buy a SIM card when traveling abroad using the GSM radio in the phone.

I think it's a decent bet that the Sprint and Verizon phones will come with a SIM card from those carriers respectively. Just as the AT&T iPad comes with a SIM card ready for you to use if you want.

A SIM card is required for international roaming in most countries, because they only have GSM, and GSM requires a phone with a SIM card. I think Sprint and Verizon will want to be able to claim that the phones are "ready to roam" internationally. Of course, at exorbitant rates.

I don't think the Sprint and Verizon phones will come SIM unlocked, ready to use with any carrier. That would open them to being switched easily to AT&T (or T-Mobile at slower speeds). I think they will be sold SIM carrier locked just as most subsidized GSM phones in the US are.
There is absolutely no need for a SIM to be present in the Sprint or Verizon phones and every reason to believe that the GSM radio will be crippled in their handsets.

We'll see when they ship, but it's already been cited by news sources that the CDMA versions of the phone will not be able to get on GSM networks.

And I remind you that the Verizon iPhone 4, while it has the same dual-mode chip, lacks a SIM slot.

Apple's not above disabling part of the phone to cater to a service-provider and in this case it's two domestic providers who don't want GSM capability in their phones.

Sprint and Verizon make quite a bit of money from roaming agreements with other CDMA providers. Since they don't sell GSM phones, they have no roaming agreements with GSM providers and have no motive to make such an agreement.

[Winston]

Chakravartin wrote:
There is absolutely no need for a SIM to be present in the Sprint or Verizon phones and every reason to believe that the GSM radio will be crippled in their handsets.

We'll see when they ship, but it's already been cited by news sources that the CDMA versions of the phone will not be able to get on GSM networks.

And I remind you that the Verizon iPhone 4, while it has the same dual-mode chip, lacks a SIM slot.

Apple's not above disabling part of the phone to cater to a service-provider and in this case it's two domestic providers who don't want GSM capability in their phones.

Sprint and Verizon make quite a bit of money from roaming agreements with other CDMA providers. Since they don't sell GSM phones, they have no roaming agreements with GSM providers and have no motive to make such an agreement.

A SIM card is required for roaming on GSM networks. Verizon offers several dual-mode phones that include SIM cards:
http://b2b.vzw.com/international/Global_...index.html

So I do think they have roaming agreements with GSM providers. They just don't promote it. Note that Verizon Wireless is 45% owned by Vodaphone, which is the world's largest wireless company, and is primarily a GSM company.

But it looks like they are excluding iPhones from that group. No mention of GSM capability on Verizon's web site for the iPhone 4s. Here's what Verizon Wireless says about one of the iPhone 4s models"
"Communication
CDMA EV–DO Rev A (800,1900 MHz)"

Sprint also offers several phones with GSM capability. If you check the "International" box under "Key Features" when browsing phones on Sprint's web site it includes the iPhone, but the detailed iPhone info does not mention GSM.
http://shop.sprint.com/mysprint/shop/phone_wall.jsp?



- Winston

[Chakravartin]

Winston wrote:
A SIM card is required for roaming on GSM networks. Verizon offers several dual-mode phones that include SIM cards:
http://b2b.vzw.com/international/Global_...index.html

So I do think they have roaming agreements with GSM providers.

I stand corrected.

Verizon does sell a couple of world-phone handsets that have GSM SIMS that can be activated to roam on foreign GSM networks (and notably, not on AT&T's network).

But they still have zero motivation to do so for the iPhone 4S.

[Winston]

Chakravartin wrote:

But they still have zero motivation to do so for the iPhone 4S.

Possibly not true for several reasons:

1. Being able to roam easily abroad has been a significant selling point for GSM carriers. I don't think they've exploited it well, but the difference is very important to a subset of the market. I am an example.

2. An acquaintance of mine is a senior executive at AT&T Mobility (not that that has done me any good as a customer). He has told me that international roaming is very profitable for AT&T.

3. A lot of companies are under tremendous pressure from their employees to use iPhones as company phones. For many companies international roaming is an important feature. Put these together, and you have major client demand for an iPhone that can be used in most countries. See also #2.

If the phone can do international roaming, why would Verizon deliberately leave that out? They would be as locked to Verizon GSM as AT&T phones are locked to AT&T. Perhaps that's not enough, but I bet it's a small fraction of customers who are willing to jailbreak and unlock. And then there are those 2 year contracts.


- W

[Chakravartin]

> If the phone can do international roaming, why would
> Verizon deliberately leave that out?

One might better ask why Verizon and Sprint would do an unprompted 180 on a successful business strategy.

And anyway, a CDMA-only phone can do international plenty of international roaming in China, India, Japan and South Korea.

[Winston]

Chakravartin wrote:
And anyway, a CDMA-only phone can do international plenty of international roaming in China, India, Japan and South Korea.

Verizon says about 40 countries for CDMA roaming. Also includes much of South America and the Caribbean. Europe only has Ukraine for CDMA roaming, per Verizon's web site.

That's vs. over 200 countries for GSM roaming. Note that both China and India have GSM carriers. (My family has had local SIM cards in both countries.) Probably most of South America and the Caribbean too. Japan and Korea are unusual for international roaming as many of their carriers don't follow anyone else's standards.

If you want to travel internationally, outside of Japan and Korea, GSM is the way to go.


- W