Crowdsourced design work -- worth it? Anybody have experience on the client end?

[stephen]

I would rather do the work to find one talented person who can be personally invested in doing me right. It's more work on my part but worth it on the other end.

[stephen]

Here's what I would do in your low-budget situation.

I would go to the best design department of a college or art school in your city, and take it to them as a project. Guarantee that you will use the winning result. Students are dying to get produced work, and you would have the added guidance/curation of the instructor.

Plan to invest some meaningful time with the class briefing them and giving them honest feedback so the experience will be valuable for you both.

[evilrobot]

stephen wrote:
go to the best design department of a college or art school in your city, and take it to them as a project

yes. this.

thinking back to those days, it meant the world to have something actually produced.

[M A V I C]

threeprong wrote:
Spec work for graphic designers is ultimately unethical.

This page sums it up better than our little semantic urination match.

If you assert spec work is fair, then I will leave with your opinion and we can agree to disagree.

3P

First, the link you cite provides reasoning for why it's unethical, and some of that reasoning doesn't apply in this case. I used to believe spec work was unethical, but ultimately it's the choice of those who are involved. I don't do it, and any client who would want me to do it I'd never want to do business for. But the creative industry is changing. Aspects of design have been commoditized, and the rules of the old don't apply to that.

And to your comments about it not being "fair", take a look at this: http://www.shoemoney.com/2012/05/08/99de...rspectives
My experience, however, has been extremely positive. The competitive environment fuels me. Dealing with contest holders and trying to accommodate their wishes while staying true to my own vision has made me a better artist and businesswoman. I have clients from all over the world now, many of whom refer me to their friends. I am busy. I am happy. I make good money and I have 99designs to thank for that. The cherry on top is that I get to be a full-time mom while I design from home. Interestingly, the bulk of my wins have come from entrepreneur moms or career women starting their own businesses trying to get ahead in this scary economy.

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I rather wouldn’t talk about precise figures now, but I make as much (or more) now as a freelancer than I was making before when I was employed as a designer and later as an art director. What is most important here is the follow-up work from clients whom I have met through 99designs site. They are satisfied with our collaboration and communication during their design contests so they keep coming back to me whenever they need anything else designed. I have established successful business relationships with them so I do have continuous work. Shortly: with the current economic situation in my country, I am continuously making more than the average salary here in Croatia.

This is the never-ending story about “no-spec work” with solid arguments pro et contra, but the existence and expansion of such sites has definitely changed the industry a lot. Personally, I find those changes welcome in many ways since now everyone in the industry has to work harder. The “big guys” need to keep their clients as those clients have the opportunity to get the same work done faster and cheaper with no loss in quality – which eventually leads to better design. The other thing is that without such sites I would probably never meet clients from the USA, UK, Australia, etc. since chances that we would just accidentally bump into each other on the internet are very poor. So in my situation, as it is now, I strongly believe that such sites are way more on the bright side. As I keep the same professional and ethical standards whoever I work for (or work with), this is a great deal for me both professionally and privately.

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In two years I have made up to $20,000 from 99designs contests and logo store (together) and some more from freelancing jobs that came through seeing my portfolio in 99designs or continued jobs with the same clients after winning their contests. Before that, I was teaching architectural design at the University of Homs getting paid $350 a month (which was good for the rates in my country).

[threeprong]

I get your side of the argument. I'm a free market kind of guy.

i am also a professional creative who gets paid well and I have, (in the past when I was much younger) participated in spec work projects. Heck, I won Microsoft's national logo contest for their Macintosh User Group design contest.

Crowd sourced creative work is good for the really talented people who are able to make a better living than they would have other wise. The end result though is that an overall devaluing of the creative process occurs.

I'm actually fine with the spirit of competition.... but this should occur at the portfolio level and not at the billable hour level for free.

Spending $200 on a logo that caused 300 hours of time to produce 400 logos is unethical, whether the victims are willing or not.

My opinion.

[Buzz]

Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose...
NBC spent like a million bucks to kill off the peacock, for awhile anyway, in the mid 1970's, and I sent in a bunch of entries, variations of the same theme, and they pretty much ripped me off with the trapezoid "N" design they ended up using. I stuck with primary red and blue, and they ended up using my exact design with slightly muted colors...

What Buzz sent in...


What NBC used...


Didn't get dime, or even a thank you. Just a few mailing receipts to show for it. A former college buddy's dad worked for the network at that time, and got me the info for the submissions. Back then, I would've been happy with some tickets to Johnny Carson.

Point being, good ideas can come from anywhere, at anytime, and even on a whim. There's no definitive right answer; only the results matter.

///

[M A V I C]

threeprong wrote: The end result though is that an overall devaluing of the creative process occurs.

I have to wonder if that's really the case. I set my own rate for about 10 years. For about 8 of that I really struggled with it. When people came to me and said "why would you charge $1000 for a logo when someone else charges $100?" I didn't have an answer. It took me a long time to realize the difference. There are people who will quickly slap something together that makes the client go "wow", without any regard to what makes a good logo. They please the client, not provide a valuable service to the client. In other words, they don't deliver a good logo but instead deliver the perception of a good logo.

I, (and it sounds like you) know what the difference is. But a lot of paying customers don't. Does that mean they're not ethical? I'm not sure on that.

I had a similar issue with website templates. I thought about it quite a bit, and basically it came down to this:
Know what your work is worth. If you know 40hrs of your work can make a company $30k, then don't have a problem charging $6k for it. When someone comes to you and say it's worth $400 to them, move on. That's what it's worth to them. You've got to find clients for whom you can produce more value in order to charge more.

You have to understand the value of your own work, and find clients that understand that as well. And plenty of businesses don't need a $1k logo. They need a $100 logo to get them off the ground. There's a need for that, just like there's a need for getting a business setup for $200 instead of $1500.

I've had clients hire me to design them a new website. I've done that, and then it didn't do anything for them more than their old site. What I didn't know then was they didn't have enough traffic or marketing for the design to make a difference. For example, a design could change a conversion rate on an ecomm site from 1% to 5% (and that would be extreme), but if they're only getting 20 visits a day, the money spent on design isn't worth it.

So now then I focused on doing what would give them the best bang for the buck. If I can do SEO work and get them 10x the traffic, that will net them more than a new site design. Once I've done that, then we can go back and work on the design. But if I charge someone $20k for a site, I had better well be able to justify the cost.

Years ago I joined a business networking group and the people in my own group laughed at me when they heard I charged more than $500 for a site. I left the group. They didn't get it. For what they did, they couldn't get more than a $500 return on a good site. It doesn't mean they don't need a site, it just means they don't need my level of service.

The value of the creative process is dependent upon the amount of (financial) impact it can have, not how much time & skill is put into it.

[Bosco]

Next time I need to hire a plumber, I'll get him to fix my repair for free. If I like his work, I might pay him.

That's basically spec work.

BTW: I don't understand why some people treat their brand (logo, identity) as an afterthought. It is (arguably) the most important aspect of creating an image for your organization. Why anyone would want to cut costs in that area is beyond me. Obviously, it's not that important to them.

Just my opinion.

[stephen]

Good article from an acquaintance of mine about this on Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/20...he-source/

[andreea]

If you need a good designer for your logo you can take a look at my work: http://designbiteblog.wordpress.com/. Thanks!