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rjmacs wrote:
[quote=Dakota]
Here is someone saying the same thing but a little more articulate,
"I ... completely underestimated the capacity of America's erstwhile "peace community" for turning on a dime and embracing the kind of all-American xenophobic flag-waving bloodlust they only recently decried. So today I stand proudly with my new friends of the formerly antiwar left in a mindlessly jingoistic salute to President Obama for an extralegal military assassination well done."
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/201...-back.html
Dakota, i'm okay with highlighting individuals who exhibit inconsistent behavior, but painting with as broad a brush as this stings. There are lots of members of the "peace community" - the real peace community, who oppose war in all its forms - who are not cheering or saluting President Obama for assassinating Osama bin Laden. I appreciate that you have found some hypocrisy among liberals since OBL was killed, but i'm going to push back a little here, respectfully. There are many people committed to peace who are not hypocrites, and there are many liberals who are not now jingoistic or xenophobic. I count myself among that group, and i've made real efforts here to talk about it. When you post something as harsh as this, it seems like i've suddenly become invisible, or possibly insulted.
Sorry if i'm taking this the wrong way - participating in these threads has been important to me, and until now i haven't felt disrespected by you. Perhaps i've got it wrong.
You've taken him no more wrong than a number of other posters who actually believed there was a possibility for dialog with this poster. While he may seem a bit back on his heels over the latest OBL developments and offering a peace stick, it's a lie.
He has no interest in dialog, only diatribe. Ask any of the other intelligent "lefties" who tried that tack only to be subject to personal attack once they put the creep* in a factual corner from which he couldn't logically escape.
Were it not for this constant quoting of and rebuttal to his mostly inane arguments, I'd have gladly forgotten he even exists.
* used here in it's most pejorative context.
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Grace62 wrote:
[quote=Black]
[quote=Grace62]
The reaction of pro-Iraq, pro-Bush policy hawks to this successful mission led by Pres. Obama is one of the more interesting cases of cognitive dissonance that I've seen in quite a while. Fascinating.
Cognitive dissonance? Nah, I think they know they're spouting a bunch of false crap.
I'm looking at that quote Dakota posted. That guy is flummoxed by having to face the fact that Pres. Obama successfully led a game-changing military mission that his hero, Pres. Bush, was unable to complete. So instead of admitting that their pre-conceived notions about Pres. Obama were wrong, the reaction is "told you so" claiming that this is a victory for the Bush approach, evidence to the contrary.
To me that looks like classic cognitive dissonance.
I think that's classic cognitive dissonance.
Well, if the choice is between assuming the writer can't see past his bias, or assuming the writer knows he's been PWN'd but set out to cleverly craft the most disparaging spin he could muster . . . I can't figure out which assumption would constitute "giving him too much credit."
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Black wrote:
[quote=Grace62]
[quote=Black]
[quote=Grace62]
The reaction of pro-Iraq, pro-Bush policy hawks to this successful mission led by Pres. Obama is one of the more interesting cases of cognitive dissonance that I've seen in quite a while. Fascinating.
Cognitive dissonance? Nah, I think they know they're spouting a bunch of false crap.
I'm looking at that quote Dakota posted. That guy is flummoxed by having to face the fact that Pres. Obama successfully led a game-changing military mission that his hero, Pres. Bush, was unable to complete. So instead of admitting that their pre-conceived notions about Pres. Obama were wrong, the reaction is "told you so" claiming that this is a victory for the Bush approach, evidence to the contrary.
To me that looks like classic cognitive dissonance.
I think that's classic cognitive dissonance.
Well, if the choice is between assuming the writer can't see past his bias, or assuming the writer knows he's been PWN'd but set out to cleverly craft the most disparaging spin he could muster . . . I can't figure out which assumption would constitute "giving him too much credit."
Just think of it as sour grapes. It's not that complicated.
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Mmm-- that reminds me- I bought grapes tonight.
BRB . . .
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Black wrote:
[quote=Dakota]
Here is someone saying the same thing but a little more articulate,
"I ... completely underestimated the capacity of America's erstwhile "peace community" for turning on a dime and embracing the kind of all-American xenophobic flag-waving bloodlust they only recently decried. So today I stand proudly with my new friends of the formerly antiwar left in a mindlessly jingoistic salute to President Obama for an extralegal military assassination well done."
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/201...-back.html
Summary: We interrupt this week's regularly scheduled Big Lies for this breaking Medium-Sized Lie. We will return to our regularly scheduled lies as soon as possible.
Which lie is the big and small one ?
Seems the White house is getting thier "historical" correctness of this event mixed up.
One minute there were shields , the next minute there were none.
One minute Bin Laden was armed, now he wasn't.
Bin Laden's wife ( maybe daughter, tomorrow) has apparently risen from the dead.
One day The President watched the whole affair and now he " missed" significant portions.
How can they doctor a photo or video to release to the world when they can't even get their story straight ?
Vietnam White house anyone ?
:devil:
I usually hear ' Happy Birthday mister President ' with Marilyn.
Hope those were sweet grapes.
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billb wrote:
[quote=Black]
[quote=Dakota]
Here is someone saying the same thing but a little more articulate,
"I ... completely underestimated the capacity of America's erstwhile "peace community" for turning on a dime and embracing the kind of all-American xenophobic flag-waving bloodlust they only recently decried. So today I stand proudly with my new friends of the formerly antiwar left in a mindlessly jingoistic salute to President Obama for an extralegal military assassination well done."
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/201...-back.html
Summary: We interrupt this week's regularly scheduled Big Lies for this breaking Medium-Sized Lie. We will return to our regularly scheduled lies as soon as possible.
Which lie is the big and small one ?
Seems the White house is getting thier "historical" correctness of this event mixed up.
One minute there were shields , the next minute there were none.
One minute Bin Laden was armed, now he wasn't.
Bin Laden's wife ( maybe daughter, tomorrow) has apparently risen from the dead.
One day The President watched the whole affair and now he " missed" significant portions.
How can they doctor a photo or video to release to the world when they can't even get their story straight ?
Vietnam White house anyone ?
:devil:
I usually hear ' Happy Birthday mister President ' with Marilyn.
Hope those were sweet grapes.
^^ if anyone still believed billb's "I'm an independent, not a right wing shill like those others" schtick . . .
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Black wrote:
[quote=billb]
[quote=Black]
[quote=Dakota]
Here is someone saying the same thing but a little more articulate,
"I ... completely underestimated the capacity of America's erstwhile "peace community" for turning on a dime and embracing the kind of all-American xenophobic flag-waving bloodlust they only recently decried. So today I stand proudly with my new friends of the formerly antiwar left in a mindlessly jingoistic salute to President Obama for an extralegal military assassination well done."
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/201...-back.html
Summary: We interrupt this week's regularly scheduled Big Lies for this breaking Medium-Sized Lie. We will return to our regularly scheduled lies as soon as possible.
Which lie is the big and small one ?
Seems the White house is getting thier "historical" correctness of this event mixed up.
One minute there were shields , the next minute there were none.
One minute Bin Laden was armed, now he wasn't.
Bin Laden's wife ( maybe daughter, tomorrow) has apparently risen from the dead.
One day The President watched the whole affair and now he " missed" significant portions.
How can they doctor a photo or video to release to the world when they can't even get their story straight ?
Vietnam White house anyone ?
:devil:
I usually hear ' Happy Birthday mister President ' with Marilyn.
Hope those were sweet grapes.
^^ if anyone still believed billb's "I'm an independent, not a right wing shill like those others" schtick . . .
Was it the smilie that gave away the sarcasm ?
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rjmacs wrote:
Sorry if i'm taking this the wrong way - participating in these threads has been important to me, and until now i haven't felt disrespected by you. Perhaps i've got it wrong.
rj, don't take this personally. I did not write the piece. I just thought it is worth reading. You have been one of the more refreshing voices here. He is not addressing any particular individual, but there is a large segment of the Democratic activists that are caught in a bind. Their support of what happened does not square with their previous positions. It was either Kerry or even Obama himself that referred to the raids in Iraq as terrorizing women and children.
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Black wrote:
[quote=billb]
[quote=Black]
[quote=Dakota]
Here is someone saying the same thing but a little more articulate,
"I ... completely underestimated the capacity of America's erstwhile "peace community" for turning on a dime and embracing the kind of all-American xenophobic flag-waving bloodlust they only recently decried. So today I stand proudly with my new friends of the formerly antiwar left in a mindlessly jingoistic salute to President Obama for an extralegal military assassination well done."
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/201...-back.html
Summary: We interrupt this week's regularly scheduled Big Lies for this breaking Medium-Sized Lie. We will return to our regularly scheduled lies as soon as possible.
Which lie is the big and small one ?
Seems the White house is getting thier "historical" correctness of this event mixed up.
One minute there were shields , the next minute there were none.
One minute Bin Laden was armed, now he wasn't.
Bin Laden's wife ( maybe daughter, tomorrow) has apparently risen from the dead.
One day The President watched the whole affair and now he " missed" significant portions.
How can they doctor a photo or video to release to the world when they can't even get their story straight ?
Vietnam White house anyone ?
:devil:
I usually hear ' Happy Birthday mister President ' with Marilyn.
Hope those were sweet grapes.
^^ if anyone still believed billb's "I'm an independent, not a right wing shill like those others" schtick . . .
You could always hold your nose and read the "right-wing conspirists" media instead:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/0...9562.shtml
don't burn your retinas.
:-)
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You're right, there is no difference between the so far 8 year long Iraq war and the mission to kill OBL. It's not right to praise one, and criticize the other.
Iraq - civilians dead: 110,000, troops dead, 4,452 (most recent death was Friday) official wounded: 33,000 unofficial: 100,000
cost: a trillion and counting
related to 9/11? no
mission accomplished: no
property damage: immeasurable
OBL mission: civilians dead: one, zero troops injured or killed
mission accomplished: yes
related to 9/11? in the highest possible way
property damage: one compound
I barely see any difference at all.
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