Ice melting bars in new house steps - good idea?

[Numo]

Is it possible that the portico and roof work may be enough to solve the problem? We have a larger-sized portico, and except from ice storms, the steps under usually stay clear of from water off the roof. Snow will blow in under it, though.

We live in Minnesota and get a fair amount of bad winter weather. However, it seems like those of you who live out east have had worse winters than us in the past few years. Dry snow is much easier to manage than wet snow.

Salt and sand makes a mess, so I don't use it.

[JoeM]

Ammo wrote:
Is it possible that the portico and roof work may be enough to solve the problem? We have a larger-sized portico, and except from ice storms, the steps under usually stay clear of from water off the roof. Snow will blow in under it, though.

We live in Minnesota and get a fair amount of bad winter weather. However, it seems like those of you who live out east have had worse winters than us in the past few years. Dry snow is much easier to manage than wet snow.

Salt and sand makes a mess, so I don't use it.

I don't think that the portico will cover all the steps, if I remember correctly but I will ask today), and I can't be sure the new roof will totally solve the ice dam problem. The contractor says if it's bad enough, they'll probably be some amount of ice damming. But he feels the portico will end the ice problem from the ice dam dripping onto the stoop. The heating rods were my idea as an extra measure to help solve the icing problem. The salt and my using an ice chipper to break up the over two inches of ice that was usually building up this year caused a lot of the damage. Maybe it's overkill but I'd hate to do all this and still have issues.

[eustacetilley]

JoeM wrote:
[quote=eustacetilley]
Maybe just a little rethinking is in order- Why have Concrete Caps at all?
What are they capping, and why?
Concrete is pretty cheap- a couple of bucks worth of Portland cement, a few cents worth of sand or gravel.
And to protect this, a lot of money spent on "protection" and ongoing energy bills.

I would need more information to suggest an alternative for this particular case, but there are always alternatives.

Eustace

The concrete now has multiple cracks throughout especially near the ends of the steps, where the steps will break off probably this winter. The brick foundation is fine. (EDIT: There are three steps instead of two as in the photo) The stoop looks pretty much like this:


Ah, thank you- a concrete slab on top of bricks.
Our old house on Staten Island had brick steps. On top of the bricks was an Iron grate, roughly textured. It was one of my jobs to sweep the steps of snow in the morning, and make at least some effort to sweep the walkway.
That grate was hell on bare feet in the Summer.

Eustace

[JoeM]

I'm starting to have second thoughts about the ice melting system. I've read if not done correctly there's potential for a black ice problem at the overhang edges when then step might look melted. Might be best to just get out the old shovel and deal with what can be seen.

[freeradical]

This is how homes are heated in Korea. It's called "Ondol" heating. The early systems used cylindrical pieces of charcoal as fuel, and exhaust gases were pumped through the pipes. Very Bad! The next generation of Ondol still used charcoal, but this heated hot water and it flowed through the pipes. Better! The last time I was there, I had an apartment with Ondol heating, but the water was heated with an oil furnace. Even better!

It's a nice system if you're walking around with bare feet or in your socks. Just make sure that you know where the hot spots are...

[BernDog]

JoeM wrote:
I'm starting to have second thoughts about the ice melting system. I've read if not done correctly there's potential for a black ice problem at the overhang edges when then step might look melted. Might be best to just get out the old shovel and deal with what can be seen.

This was my concern, and a question I've had about these systems (I'd love to have my whole property done up like that, but considering what that would cost, it's just a passing curiosity in the whole thing).

The question is: Where does the melted water go? At some point it leaves the heated surface and will freeze somewhere. Drain pipes clogged with ice? Big pile of ice at the bottom of the driveway where it meets the street? I'm assuming it's channeled underground and eventually meets up with a storm sewer somewhere, but what keeps it liquid on it's way there and once it arrives?

Just on your steps, I'm sure it would either just evaporate or run off, but how do they get rid of the water in larger systems?

[Dennis S]

"It will add around $1600."

Then I would say "no."

[JoeM]

BernDog wrote:
[quote=JoeM]
I'm starting to have second thoughts about the ice melting system. I've read if not done correctly there's potential for a black ice problem at the overhang edges when then step might look melted. Might be best to just get out the old shovel and deal with what can be seen.

This was my concern, and a question I've had about these systems (I'd love to have my whole property done up like that, but considering what that would cost, it's just a passing curiosity in the whole thing).

The question is: Where does the melted water go? At some point it leaves the heated surface and will freeze somewhere. Drain pipes clogged with ice? Big pile of ice at the bottom of the driveway where it meets the street? I'm assuming it's channeled underground and eventually meets up with a storm sewer somewhere, but what keeps it liquid on it's way there and once it arrives?

Just on your steps, I'm sure it would either just evaporate or run off, but how do they get rid of the water in larger systems?
I believe it would evaporate on the stoop. Apparently there are seveeral different grades of melting systems. Here's something I read: " ... As I recall, there are three classes of snowmelting. I may have this backwards, but class I is for things like helicopter landing pads where you not only melt, but you EVAPORATE in real time. Class II melts in real time. Class III allows some accumulation with melting expected in say 24 hours."

[JoeM]

Dennis S wrote:
"It will add around $1600."

Then I would say "no."

The wife agrees with you. :-)

[macphanatic]

My parents had electric heating in their driveway. It did a great job and cost less than having it plowed (driveway was too long and my Dad too old to shovel). He had a temperature and moisture sensor installed so that the system would turn on automatically when precipitation was detected and the temperature was around 32F or lower.