Win10 ISN'T free

[decay]

First one's free, kid...

[silvarios]

Bimwad wrote:
Win 10 is a free upgrade for existing users, and new licenses cost money. Not a new concept for distributing software.

Since programmers gotta eat, and bandwidth costs money, MS has to find ways to make up for that lost revenue somehow.

I haven't seen anything that suggests that Win 11 will adopt the subscription model, but admittedly, I don't follow MS closely either. Have they said so, or is it just speculation?

Doesn't bug me either and I'm not sure a yearly fee would necessarily be problematic either. I'd pay $20/year without blinking because Windows has traditionally cost at least $80 per upgrade for most people. Generally higher. Or the cost of a completely new computer. Then again, I generally use Linux and Mac OS and both can be upgraded for free these days.

[rjmacs]

silvarios wrote:
[quote=rjmacs]
True, but most other OS' don't stop offering free security updates to the last major version released. Apple is still offering free security updates for Mountain Lion.

Wait, that can't be right. Windows 7 is still receiving updates now, right? Anyone have a link with that info?
Yeah, but this thread isn't about Windows 7.

[M A V I C]

Bimwad wrote: I haven't seen anything that suggests that Win 11 will adopt the subscription model, but admittedly, I don't follow MS closely either. Have they said so, or is it just speculation?

MS has said they are going with a subscription model in the near future. They've also said a few other things, and demonstrated some bit of forced upgrade (eg stopping security updates to W8 to force upgrades to 8.1.) I've seen multiple articles where MS was asked if Windows 10 users would be forced to upgrade to a subscription model, and MS has declined to comment. The fact they decline to state rather than flat out say it's not the case, is very telling, IMHO.

[silvarios]

rjmacs wrote:
[quote=silvarios]
[quote=rjmacs]
True, but most other OS' don't stop offering free security updates to the last major version released. Apple is still offering free security updates for Mountain Lion.

Wait, that can't be right. Windows 7 is still receiving updates now, right? Anyone have a link with that info?
Yeah, but this thread isn't about Windows 7.
Sure, but this wasn't about just Windows 7, but every OS Microsoft has released for over a decade at this point in time.

Support is listed as October 13, 2020/October 14, 2025 (Mainstream/Extended)

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

"Updates are cumulative, with each update built upon all of the updates that preceded it. A device needs to install the latest update to remain supported. Updates may include new features, fixes (security and/or non-security), or a combination of both. Not all features in an update will work on all devices. A device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (“OEM”) support period. Update availability may vary, for example by country, region, network connectivity, mobile operator (e.g., for cellular-capable devices), or hardware capabilities (including, e.g., free disk space). "

There's some wiggle room in the fine print, but I think the idea is all is all Windows 10 devices receive mandatory updates and thus stay "in spec" for support.

[silvarios]

M A V I C wrote:
[quote=Bimwad]I haven't seen anything that suggests that Win 11 will adopt the subscription model, but admittedly, I don't follow MS closely either. Have they said so, or is it just speculation?

MS has said they are going with a subscription model in the near future. They've also said a few other things, and demonstrated some bit of forced upgrade (eg stopping security updates to W8 to force upgrades to 8.1.) I've seen multiple articles where MS was asked if Windows 10 users would be forced to upgrade to a subscription model, and MS has declined to comment. The fact they decline to state rather than flat out say it's not the case, is very telling, IMHO.
8.1 was essentially a service pack, right? And was a free update to Windows 8 users? How did Microsoft generally handle updates if you don't install the service packs?

[M A V I C]

silvarios wrote:
[quote=M A V I C]
[quote=Bimwad]I haven't seen anything that suggests that Win 11 will adopt the subscription model, but admittedly, I don't follow MS closely either. Have they said so, or is it just speculation?

MS has said they are going with a subscription model in the near future. They've also said a few other things, and demonstrated some bit of forced upgrade (eg stopping security updates to W8 to force upgrades to 8.1.) I've seen multiple articles where MS was asked if Windows 10 users would be forced to upgrade to a subscription model, and MS has declined to comment. The fact they decline to state rather than flat out say it's not the case, is very telling, IMHO.
8.1 was essentially a service pack, right? And was a free update to Windows 8 users? How did Microsoft generally handle updates if you don't install the service packs?
8.1 wasn't a service pack. They are treating it like that, however. Windows 8 stopped getting updates about 120 days after 8.1 shipped. Win7 is still getting updates. That's a big shift in how they're working. The next version of Windows is just "Windows". They're dropping the versions altogether as they go to a subscription model. Don't be surprised if 10 gets an update to "Windows" and is then part of the subscription service.

If you look at that link you provided, it shows it pretty clearly. Service Pack, Service Pack... New Version.

[silvarios]

My link shows Microsoft does consider 8.1 to be the most recent update for Windows 8 users. I honestly don't understand the distinction we are trying to draw.

Again, Windows 8 users are supposed to update to 8.1 just as XP users were supposed to update to SP3 eventually. As another example, Mac OS 10.10 users will stop getting most security updates if they stop upgrading the x.x.x releases. But once those users update to the latest x.x.x release, updates will continue to work just fine. Sure you can skip x.x.x release and Apple will still roll everything up as a new x.x.x release, but you can't just install random security patches to 10.10 or 10.10.1 and be up to date at this point in Yosemite's release cycle.

[silvarios]

If you mean Windows 8.1 is not a service pack because it includes new/revamped features, not just patches and bug fixes, my memory is XP and other versions of Windows have done the same thing in the past through service updates.

I think the naming scheme for Windows 8 was to mirror the naming scheme for Windows Phone. X is a new release, X.x is a major update to x, but not a new release. Does that make more sense?

[rjmacs]

silvarios wrote:
[quote=rjmacs]
[quote=silvarios]
[quote=rjmacs]
True, but most other OS' don't stop offering free security updates to the last major version released. Apple is still offering free security updates for Mountain Lion.

Wait, that can't be right. Windows 7 is still receiving updates now, right? Anyone have a link with that info?
Yeah, but this thread isn't about Windows 7.
Sure, but this wasn't about just Windows 7, but every OS Microsoft has released for over a decade at this point in time.

Support is listed as October 13, 2020/October 14, 2025 (Mainstream/Extended)

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

"Updates are cumulative, with each update built upon all of the updates that preceded it. A device needs to install the latest update to remain supported. Updates may include new features, fixes (security and/or non-security), or a combination of both. Not all features in an update will work on all devices. A device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (“OEM”) support period. Update availability may vary, for example by country, region, network connectivity, mobile operator (e.g., for cellular-capable devices), or hardware capabilities (including, e.g., free disk space). "

There's some wiggle room in the fine print, but I think the idea is all is all Windows 10 devices receive mandatory updates and thus stay "in spec" for support.
No disagreement here, but the point originally was that once Windows 11 is out, those updates will be provided only if you PAY for them. That is different than other OS's, like OS X.