WA measles outbreak likely originated in Bible study class

[$tevie]

rjmacs wrote:
[quote=$tevie]
[quote=rjmacs]It takes a village, not just 3/4 of a village. Refusing to vaccinate has weird resonance with a kind of racist elitism in this country - mostly because it's about devaluing people who are vulnerable in favor of prizing people who are 'yours.'

I have to ask for some clarity on this statement. I don't understand it at all, to be honest.
Okay, that's fair. It's a resonance, not a straight logical line, so you may have to bear with some discursive wandering.

In this country, philosophies of the 'good public life' run the gamut from radical individualism (we are all sovereign bodies, and our freedom from coercion by the collective is a hallmark of being American) to a kind of collectivist utopianism (it takes a village, living together means sacrificing for the common good, America's greatness comes from e pluribus unum).

Unsurprisingly, the more privilege one has, the easier it becomes to align with the former philosophy - who needs insurance if you can pay a doctor cash? Why contribute to social security when we should really be responsible for our own welfare? Misfortune is a reality of life, but that doesn't make me responsible for someone else's woes... The trick is to be ambitious, resilient, and lucky,

Also unsurprisingly, the less privilege one has, the more it makes sense to buy into the collective idea of health, happiness, and security - misfortune can be cruel and random, and we are all vulnerable, so why not pool our resources for safety? When the most vulnerable are safe, then we are all better off. Hard work and persistence matter, sure, but there's also inequality, bad luck, evil...

I'm not implying any kind of uniformity among members of racial groups and these ideologies, and there are lots of exceptions to the rule. But there's still some resonance, for me.

(This was composed in haste - apologies for lack of clarity or insensitivity!)
The problem with your theory is that you are assuming that a wealthy parent doesn't care if their child endures pain and suffering, because they figure they can pay to have it eventually go away. This is absolutely about being stupid, not about feeling privileged.

[DeusxMac]

hal wrote:
[quote=DeusxMac]
"McCarthy's public presence and vocal activism on the vaccination-autism controversy, led, in 2008, to her being awarded the James Randi Educational Foundation's Pigasus Award..."

hahaha! I LOVE Randi - check out a little film about him called 'An Honest Liar'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9ZWaS_FjNU
Here's a very poor photo of Randi sitting in front of me at a screening of that film.

[Sarcany]

$tevie wrote:
The problem with your theory is that you are assuming that a wealthy parent doesn't care if their child endures pain and suffering, because they figure they can pay to have it eventually go away. This is absolutely about being stupid, not about feeling privileged.

Sometimes, it's about both.

Some people assume that they have the best judgment because of their social positions and income and some even believe that they can pick and choose what is fact and what is fiction.

A subset of this group has fake wavy reddish hair and resides in a big white house.

[$tevie]

If a person thinks that money can ward off germs, that is stupidity, no matter how you paint it.

[$tevie]

Not to mention, since when do the wealthy elite send their kids to a school like that? Answer: they do not.

[timg]

You all are looking too deeply into rjmacs comments ...

you can simply boil it down to rjmacs equates racism with stupidity.
all racists are stupid
only stupid people don't vaccinate
therefore, people who don't vaccinate are racist.

[Lemon Drop]

Acer wrote:
I agree with testcase. Anti-vax is not racist elitism. It's ill-informed stupidity.

It's all of the above, and more.

Anti-vaxxers are nearly always white, affluent, well-educated parents. You do not find clusters of poor minority parents letting their kids go without vaccines. Those people would expect to be punished for doing that.

Anti-vaxxers know their children are protected by herd immunity and by previous efforts to eradicate diseases. But getting shots is for other people; they want their kids to be "pure" and they live in such privilege bubbles that they don't accept responsibility for how their behavior endangers not only their own child but society in general.

You might think this crowd is mostly crunchy granola ultra left types, but there are just as many Republican anti-vaxxers as Democrats - it's not really a political thing.

I am all for continued research into the safety of vaccines, of course. But some things we know for sure: if this trend of not vaccinating children continues, people will suffer and die unnecessarily.

Here's a good article on who they are and why they reject the core advice of pediatricians and public health officials:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/who-a...ti-vaxxers

"The biggest camp by far are the highly educated, mainstream upper-class people who don't reject modern medicine, who go to the doctor, but have gotten on this theme of distrust of the information that's being provided by doctors about vaccines," Sawyer said.

[timg]

Lemon Drop wrote:
[quote=Acer]
I agree with testcase. Anti-vax is not racist elitism. It's ill-informed stupidity.

It's all of the above, and more.

Anti-vaxxers are nearly always white, affluent, well-educated parents. You do not find clusters of poor minority parents letting their kids go without vaccines. Those people would expect to be punished for doing that.

Anti-vaxxers know their children are protected by herd immunity and by previous efforts to eradicate diseases. But getting shots is for other people; they want their kids to be "pure" and they live in such privilege bubbles that they don't accept responsibility for how their behavior endangers not only their own child but society in general.

You might think this crowd is mostly crunchy granola ultra left types, but there are just as many Republican anti-vaxxers as Democrats - it's not really a political thing.

I am all for continued research into the safety of vaccines, of course. But some things we know for sure: if this trend of not vaccinating children continues, people will suffer and die unnecessarily.

Here's a good article on who they are and why they reject the core advice of pediatricians and public health officials:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/who-a...ti-vaxxers

"The biggest camp by far are the highly educated, mainstream upper-class people who don't reject modern medicine, who go to the doctor, but have gotten on this theme of distrust of the information that's being provided by doctors about vaccines," Sawyer said.
OK, the article did not mention race once, but you had to inject it into your summary. Why? The boundary they drew was socio-economic, not race based.

[Lemon Drop]

timg wrote:
[quote=Lemon Drop]
[quote=Acer]
I agree with testcase. Anti-vax is not racist elitism. It's ill-informed stupidity.

It's all of the above, and more.

Anti-vaxxers are nearly always white, affluent, well-educated parents. You do not find clusters of poor minority parents letting their kids go without vaccines. Those people would expect to be punished for doing that.

Anti-vaxxers know their children are protected by herd immunity and by previous efforts to eradicate diseases. But getting shots is for other people; they want their kids to be "pure" and they live in such privilege bubbles that they don't accept responsibility for how their behavior endangers not only their own child but society in general.

You might think this crowd is mostly crunchy granola ultra left types, but there are just as many Republican anti-vaxxers as Democrats - it's not really a political thing.

I am all for continued research into the safety of vaccines, of course. But some things we know for sure: if this trend of not vaccinating children continues, people will suffer and die unnecessarily.

Here's a good article on who they are and why they reject the core advice of pediatricians and public health officials:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/who-a...ti-vaxxers

"The biggest camp by far are the highly educated, mainstream upper-class people who don't reject modern medicine, who go to the doctor, but have gotten on this theme of distrust of the information that's being provided by doctors about vaccines," Sawyer said.
OK, the article did not mention race once, but you had to inject it into your summary. Why? The boundary they drew was socio-economic, not race based.

I know the anti-vaxxer community in Washington and Oregon very well, and in San Diego. It's white people.
If you know of communities of color where large numbers of parents are anti-vaxxers, I'd be interested to hear of them but to date I've not heard of any.

[timg]

So, your statement is from personal experience then. That's fine, just say that.

Just curious - do you know any communities of color who fit the demographic in the article?