FW/USB2 PCI for G4/400-X 3.9 supporting deep sleep?

[macnut]

I just got an IOGear USB 2/FireWire PCI card from OWC and it won't let my Sawtooth G4/400 AGP go into deep sleep. Tech support can't recommend a solution. I'm looking for a card that does. Anybody had any success with one in this model and OS? TIA

[Jem]

You are searching for the "Holy Grail" my friend...

Or tilting at windmills, depending on the analogy you prefer.

This question has been asked many times over the past few years and I have yet to hear of a product that will do as you want in ALL G4 power Macs with ALL versions of the Mac OS X.

But if such a beast does exist, I hope it will be posted to this thread.

Good luck.

P.S. I have a no-name USB 2.0 card that supports "deep sleep" in my PowerMac G4 MDD *only* if certain types of devices aren't attached. For instance it doesn't have a problem with my Canon printer or Griffin RadioShark... but leave an iPod or pen drive attached and it goes in to a coma from which it will not awake. Force power down required. YMMV.

[OWC Larry]

The problem isn't so much the card as it is how Apple supported the USB PCI cards.... By in large, they did not correct issues underlying in the OS until Tiger.

[macnut]

Thanks, Larry. Will upgrading to Tiger fix the issue do you think? If so, I'll probably wait for Leopard anyway if Apple is still on target for its imminent release.

[Jem]

[quote OWC Larry]The problem isn't so much the card as it is how Apple supported the USB PCI cards.... By in large, they did not correct issues underlying in the OS until Tiger.
Larry,

This is interesting. Is this in reference to just your IOGear cards, or should it hold true for most/all USB cards that exhibit the Deep Sleep problem?

After upgrading from 10.3.9 to 10.4.9 I again tested whether the deep sleep issue persisted with my USB card, and it was in fact still there... same as under 10.3.9.

That would seem to suggest the problem is not *just* with the OS, but may be a combination of hardware and software. Add to that, the wide variety of USB devices, some which seem to work and some which do not, and it further confuses the issue.

Have you found that your card in a Sawtooth G4 under 10.4.9 works with all pen drives, USB 2.0 external drives, and (USB ) iPods... including Deep sleep and re-awake? If that is so, that would be good enough for me. Curious to hear your response. Thanks!

[C(-)ris]

You used the word "All." The answer is automatically: NO. I still don't understand why people like deep sleep so much that it is a huge issue. There is very little power difference between sleeping the monitor and spinning down the HDs, and deep sleep.

[Jem]

[quote C(-)ris]You used the word "All." The answer is automatically: NO. I still don't understand why people like deep sleep so much that it is a huge issue. There is very little power difference between sleeping the monitor and spinning down the HDs, and deep sleep.
Chris,

It is the more the *consequence* of forgetting to unmount and detach "rogue USB devices" before the machine goes to sleep... either on it's own or by manual selecting it from the Apple menu.

I share a computer with 1 or more other people, and the natural impulse is to manually put the machine to sleep once one is done with it, to save energy, etc.

I could try and train people NEVER to manually put the machine to sleep, but that is an imperfect solution, as EVENTUALLY someone slips up, and then all open documents and processes are lost as a hard reboot is required.

I intend to test what the difference in power usage is between Deep Sleep and display and hard disk sleep (using Kill-O-Watt device)... but I suspect it is still significant.

For what *should* be such a simple fix to all this jumping through hoops, it is surprising there has been such a lack of support from Apple on this issue... especially since they ultimately endorsed USB 2.0 across all their current (and recent) product lines.

[Racer X]

But, you see, 3rd party USB 2 cards are the card manufacturers problem, not Apples. As far as Apple is concerned. Apple supports USB 2 with its own built-in USB 2 ports. Your card isn't their problem. As much as we would like to believe that anything that we plug into a machine will work flawlessly, that is never going to happen.

[C(-)ris]

I guess it is a user training thing. We never sleep any of the machines here. I'm not even sure all of the staff knows how to put a Mac to sleep. As I said before, the power savings is negligible between setting it to sleep and letting the HDs spin down and the monitors sleep. Anything you add to the machine isn't supported by Apple. If the cards don't work it is the manuf. problem, not Apples.

[Jem]

[quote C(-)ris] If the cards don't work it is the manuf. problem, not Apples.
Then why the hell put PCI slots in the power Mac if they won't work with anything not manufactured by Apple?

I understand Apple can't control how 3rd party components are manufactured, but to say Apple has no interest in making sure their hardware is compatible with other 3rd party hardware is a pretty weak argument.

Hell... if Apple can't even produce their own branded PCI card for adding USB 2.0 to G4 PowerMacs... how are 3rd party manufacturers supposed to manage it?

A better explanation is that Apple screwed up their hardware implementation of USB, and weren't able to fully address the problems with software patches... and it was too expensive to fix it in the already sold hardware.

Plenty of crap PCs do just fine with USB 2.0 PCI cards, so it isn't a case of it not being technically feasible. It just wasn't financially feasible, I suspect, and those thinking the PCI slots in their G4s would give future expansion options, ended up getting the shaft where USB 2.0 is concerned.

It isn't the end of the world, but it sure does suck.