12-03-2009, 12:54 AM
Thanks for the comments M A V I C, good discussion...
My use of the word "abuse" and "abusive" has been rejected for overstatement. An employee can feel mistreated, disrespected, or abused in the workplace without it necessarily reaching the level of a Dictionary definition of criminal abuse, or illegal conduct. Anyone who's ever had a job anywhere can barely get through a day without feeling abused on occasion, it's what we accept as part of the language of working for a living. Let's not get too clinical.
To look at this picture fairly, I think, it's more about the climate of unease and distrust between management and staff at this Apple Store, not so much about specific acts or complaints or grievance--though those are understandably how alleged misconduct is measured--it's how the atmosphere at this store got here in the first place. The lack of communication, an atmosphere of grief between managers and staffers. This, we are to believe, is an employee problem? It's the employees fault? It may be possible, but that's certainly a hard sell.
That's all my case is, really. I'm not in position to argue for or against specific grievances, but the climate that's developed there, that says more about how the store operates from day to day. In my experience there, my fellow employees were great, and the management wasn't so great. (I could say more, but not in this forum, I don't want to bash management unfairly, either, just to make a point) I could summarize by saying, it looked to me like it would function better with a different set of managers, not a continually-replaceable set of new employees.
It's also understandable that M A V I C's instinct would be to be skeptical of the employee complaints. And more inclined to be supportive of the managers. M A V I C, your legitimate bias against young Apple Store staff members is well established, you've gotten disappointing, ill-informed, and unhelpful service from the Apple Store staff. Your view of the average Apple Store employee is pretty dim. I'd suggest the conclusions you've drawn are somewhat colored by this grievance. Not tainted by it, but certainly influenced by it. Not that your observations are wrong. I'm just suggesting your conclusions about this store are premature.
Also, I think it's misleading to view it exclusively as a management/labor problem. It's all an employee problem. Consider this: management of these Apple Stores aren't corporate officers, or seasoned executives, they are little more than fellow Apple Store employees. A few years older, a slightly higher pay scale, a tad more responsibility, a different title on their business card, and one more key in their pocket, otherwise, they're indistinguishable from the people they hire. They're all Apple Store employees.
Which one of those three are you claiming took place at the Apple Store? The problems employees cited have been none of those three.
Fair point, but again, I'm less concerned about "the problems cited", this isn't an analysis of a textbook labor-management case study, though from the outside, I can see how that's all there is to go on. It's the communication f the workplace, management/staff relationship in general, that concerns me. If communication was good (if management was good) in the first place, it wouldn't have unraveled to this point. It's bogus to blame employees for a poor working climate. It's management's obligation to set the tone and maintain a well-functioning workplace.
The closest I could find were descriptions that many employees are tech savvy and thus don't work well/understand the nature of sales. So when presented with sales goals, they simply don't work well with that. I admit, I'm the same way. I suck at sales.
Yes, but you'd have fun selling Apple gear, M A V I C. On a different note, I'd add... if the economy were better, the sales goals reach themselves without pressuring low-level employees to take the heat for cautious spending by burdened consumers. When I was there, before the economic meltdown, iPods and iMacs jumped off the shelves, it was Apple's best year ever, selling Apple products was virtually effortless. I achieved goals easily, not because I'm any good at sales. Though Apple is performing better than its competitors, it's still a dark season for holiday shopping in general. Could this Apple Store standoff merely be a symptom of problems with sales goals and retail unease in general? Perhaps.
My use of the word "abuse" and "abusive" has been rejected for overstatement. An employee can feel mistreated, disrespected, or abused in the workplace without it necessarily reaching the level of a Dictionary definition of criminal abuse, or illegal conduct. Anyone who's ever had a job anywhere can barely get through a day without feeling abused on occasion, it's what we accept as part of the language of working for a living. Let's not get too clinical.
To look at this picture fairly, I think, it's more about the climate of unease and distrust between management and staff at this Apple Store, not so much about specific acts or complaints or grievance--though those are understandably how alleged misconduct is measured--it's how the atmosphere at this store got here in the first place. The lack of communication, an atmosphere of grief between managers and staffers. This, we are to believe, is an employee problem? It's the employees fault? It may be possible, but that's certainly a hard sell.
That's all my case is, really. I'm not in position to argue for or against specific grievances, but the climate that's developed there, that says more about how the store operates from day to day. In my experience there, my fellow employees were great, and the management wasn't so great. (I could say more, but not in this forum, I don't want to bash management unfairly, either, just to make a point) I could summarize by saying, it looked to me like it would function better with a different set of managers, not a continually-replaceable set of new employees.
It's also understandable that M A V I C's instinct would be to be skeptical of the employee complaints. And more inclined to be supportive of the managers. M A V I C, your legitimate bias against young Apple Store staff members is well established, you've gotten disappointing, ill-informed, and unhelpful service from the Apple Store staff. Your view of the average Apple Store employee is pretty dim. I'd suggest the conclusions you've drawn are somewhat colored by this grievance. Not tainted by it, but certainly influenced by it. Not that your observations are wrong. I'm just suggesting your conclusions about this store are premature.
Also, I think it's misleading to view it exclusively as a management/labor problem. It's all an employee problem. Consider this: management of these Apple Stores aren't corporate officers, or seasoned executives, they are little more than fellow Apple Store employees. A few years older, a slightly higher pay scale, a tad more responsibility, a different title on their business card, and one more key in their pocket, otherwise, they're indistinguishable from the people they hire. They're all Apple Store employees.
Which one of those three are you claiming took place at the Apple Store? The problems employees cited have been none of those three.
Fair point, but again, I'm less concerned about "the problems cited", this isn't an analysis of a textbook labor-management case study, though from the outside, I can see how that's all there is to go on. It's the communication f the workplace, management/staff relationship in general, that concerns me. If communication was good (if management was good) in the first place, it wouldn't have unraveled to this point. It's bogus to blame employees for a poor working climate. It's management's obligation to set the tone and maintain a well-functioning workplace.
The closest I could find were descriptions that many employees are tech savvy and thus don't work well/understand the nature of sales. So when presented with sales goals, they simply don't work well with that. I admit, I'm the same way. I suck at sales.
Yes, but you'd have fun selling Apple gear, M A V I C. On a different note, I'd add... if the economy were better, the sales goals reach themselves without pressuring low-level employees to take the heat for cautious spending by burdened consumers. When I was there, before the economic meltdown, iPods and iMacs jumped off the shelves, it was Apple's best year ever, selling Apple products was virtually effortless. I achieved goals easily, not because I'm any good at sales. Though Apple is performing better than its competitors, it's still a dark season for holiday shopping in general. Could this Apple Store standoff merely be a symptom of problems with sales goals and retail unease in general? Perhaps.