Meaningful steps

[john dough]

Your company is not the sort I am talking about. I am talking of GE, Google, Microsoft, Intel that actively pursue paying little or no taxes by incorporating in, say, Bermuda (as in Google's case). These companies make hundred of millions in profit that was made, by and large, on US soil (I knot there is no "soil" on the internet, yet Google claims a presence in Bermuda and pays no taxes on money "made" there, which is substantial).

I say if a company that makes its money on US soil, they pay takes on said money. GE alone had billions in PROFIT, yet have a substantial presence in the US, and they did not pay a dime. I do not point the finger at them, I point it at whatever crazy loophole that they use to evade taxes (there is no other word for this, but evasion). THAT needs to be closed and pronto.

Good for your company, but I am strictly talking about those who are gaming the system, and there are many.

[Mac1337]

john dough wrote:

I say if a company that makes its money on US soil, they pay takes on said money. GE alone had billions in PROFIT, yet have a substantial presence in the US, and they did not pay a dime.

Maybe Obama should bring this up next time he is having lunch with Immelt and appointing him to his advisory board.

[john dough]

Why do you feel the need to defend these outfits? You do realize that this is tax evasion, right? And also, you must realize that all of these companies who do NOT pay taxes are not helping anyone but the shareholders, right?

Tell us what you do for a living, again? You are employed, right?

For someone who spends all day trying to put their 2¢ in every thread, I would LOVE a job like yours.

[cbelt3]

john, fine, go after the obvious manipulators. I don't agree that GE is one of them.. they are an international company with many operations in other countries that sell those products there. And keep in mind, WHERE a company is incorporated has little to do with where it pays taxes. Any US company, regardless of where it's HQ is, pays taxes on its US earnings. And they pay taxes in foreign lands too.

Sure... there's some accounting playing in some firms. And they get caught sometimes too.

Specifically on GE:

"But GE isn't exactly escaping all tax-related pain: The company paid almost $23 billion in taxes to governments around the world from 2000 to 2009, Eisele said."
http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/com...x_returns/

[RgrF]

swampy wrote:
Here are some ways Congress can immediately fix some of our economic problems (as soon as they return from their high priced vacations)

• Open a short window to allow corporations to bring home, tax free, the $2T they currently hold off shore allowing them to recapitalize, expand and create jobs. These jobs will bring "new" tax payers back into the government revenue stream.
• Terminate the pension and health care benefits for all lawmakers and roll all these monies into the Social Security Trust Fund. They need to participate in the same programs they legislate and make them enroll in their new health care plan they have exempted themselves from.
• Term limits.

Interesting to see how Swampy's suggestions were demolished within the first few posts. She's a teacher and should know better than to throw unsubstantiated opinion out in the forum.

While you make take pity on the kids she teaches let me play her game.

Unsubstantiated Opinion 101:

1) Abolish the ceiling on FICA deductions.

2) Stop pretending to be world cop, withdraw troops from Europe and Asia while drawing down in the mideast and reduce the military budget to what is needed for actual defense.

3) Use 25% of that saving to train and educate veterans with employable skills, then, as a bridge, employ them in public projects.

4) Bring tax rates for individuals earning over $250,000/yr back to a sensible and fair level. Cap executive compensation at 100 X the average wage paid within that corporate framework. Return the excess to shareholders.

4) Revamp the tax code, pare down, with an eye to minimizing corporate welfare.

5) Sunset all tax exemptions, let them expire unless renewed at 5 year intervals.

6) Kill all the lawyers. (that alone would open up 400 of the 550 seats in Congress as well as that seat in the White House)

Excuse me for a moment, I think just heard either Homeland Security or the Secret Service come to a screeching halt outside my door.

[OWC Jamie]

cbelt3 wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/com...x_returns/

I rather doubt John wants to even begin to understand GE's dilemna.
He likes that talking point too much.

If you were to point out the losses he uses for his tax advantages he would defend them to the nines.

[john dough]

cbelt3 wrote:
john, fine, go after the obvious manipulators. I don't agree that GE is one of them.. they are an international company with many operations in other countries that sell those products there. And keep in mind, WHERE a company is incorporated has little to do with where it pays taxes. Any US company, regardless of where it's HQ is, pays taxes on its US earnings. And they pay taxes in foreign lands too.

Sure... there's some accounting playing in some firms. And they get caught sometimes too.

Specifically on GE:

"But GE isn't exactly escaping all tax-related pain: The company paid almost $23 billion in taxes to governments around the world from 2000 to 2009, Eisele said."
http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/com...x_returns/

Here is how Google saved billions:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21...holes.html

"Such income shifting costs the U.S. government as much as $60 billion in annual revenue." (Not all is from Google, but their saving are massive because of these schemes.)

Here is how GE saved billions:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/03/g...risis.html

" After the World Trade Organization forced the United States to halt $5 billion a year in export subsidies to G.E. and other manufacturers, the company’s lawyers and lobbyists became deeply involved in rewriting a portion of the corporate tax code, according to news reports after the 2002 decision and a Congressional staff member.

By the time the measure — the American Jobs Creation Act — was signed into law by President George W. Bush in 2004, it contained more than $13 billion a year in tax breaks for corporations, many very beneficial to G.E. One provision allowed companies to defer taxes on overseas profits from leasing planes to airlines. It was so generous — and so tailored to G.E. and a handful of other companies — that staff members on the House Ways and Means Committee publicly complained that G.E. would reap “an overwhelming percentage” of the estimated $100 million in annual tax savings.

According to its 2007 regulatory filing, the company saved more than $1 billion in American taxes because of that law in the three years after it was enacted."

If you think that GE & Google are not shopping to move their presence to another location where they can get the lowest tax rate, then you are just not paying attention. I do not fault them for this; if that were in my best interest, I would do that too.

These companies hire the best lawyers and the sharpest analysts to increase their profits and don't think for a second that these outfits just "got lucky" by landing in places where they "happen" to get the best rates.

[john dough]

billb wrote:
I rather doubt John wants to even begin to understand GE's dilemna.
He likes that talking point too much.

If you were to point out the losses he uses for his tax advantages he would defend them to the nines.

"GE has no dilemma." :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:

I would be glad to cut out some/all of my deductions of some of these corporate money shift schemes were outlawed. My deductions amount to from $15-$30K per year (on average). I would have less of a problem letting some of these go if the largest of the corporations lost theirs. Deal?

The big difference for them is their "savings" are estimated at $60 billion per year in revenue that the US government does not get. That money would lower the effective rate we all pay.

Keep defending their message; they love it when people help them out this way.

[Mac1337]

You think Obama will bring up this $60 billion dollar with Immelt over lunch sometime? After all, we know he is for a "balanced" approach.

[john dough]

This economy is in crummy shape yet the culture of evasion that was started long before him. You constantly harp on Obama yet many of your grievances stem from Bush and his decisions, and you never hold the root of the problem responsible. The fact that you never, ever hold the GOP and specifically Bush to the same level that you hold bush makes your opinions moot.

You have not answered my question: how much money do you make? You can keep running from the question, but I will keep asking.

Oh, and the companies thank you as well for carrying water for them as well. They could not have done it without all of the help of the people that defend such activities.