Guess who's rising from the dead?

[Will Collier]

BRAAAAAINS!!!

[Trouble]

RAMd®d wrote:
does point out that there is a big pentup demand for a quality $100 tablet

Actually, it doesn't.

People think they can get a iPad experience by paying much less for something akin to an iPad. That's like getting a great price on a Yugo. Oxymoron. They may be able to fool themselves. Certainly *some* will be happy, and that's fine.. But this isn't even a blip on Apple's radar.

Doesn't need to be. I think you are incorrect about people wanting an iPad experience for less than an iPad. People want a tablet. And the people who can't afford the $500, $629, to $829 prices are the same people who can't afford to buy hundreds of dollars worth of apps as well.

I don't know why there is such a hostility here about others buying a TouchPad nor do I know why people keep calling it cheap. It most certainly isn't cheap. It is discounted. The difference is the TouchPad has high quality parts. Capacitive touch. IPS screen. Dual core 1.2 GHz CPU. 1 GB of RAM. High quality battery. Beats audio. Great OS. Even though the TouchPad is priced the same as cheap android tablet at CVS, it isn't the same. It would be like Lexus dropping the prices on their cars by 80%. Sure, it isn't a Mercedes, but it isn't a Yugo either.

If I didn't have the money to buy an iPad and the hundreds of dollars of apps, I would be perfectly happy with the TouchPad. I really doubt I could say the same about a $150 tablet that runs Android 2.2 and works best with a stylus.

RAMd®d wrote: Good to see HP racing to the bottom and making no money doing it, sounds like a great business model.

Exactly.

I think it is a bit unfair to characterize a company dumping a product as "great business model." HP decided to get out of the tablet business. Sales have shown that the fire sale may have been short-sighted. HP reevaluating their positioning isn't unheard of. And while they are losing hundreds of millions of dollars on the hardware, they are building a base of the second most popular tablet and they may get that money back when they sell webOS. All speculation but HP isn't the first someone to try and make something good out of a bad situation and enjoy benefits from unintended consequences.

RAMd®d wrote: So I guess they want to quit while they're "ahead"? Go out while they're on top?

Let's see what their Q2s for 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 look like.

Could be. Margins are so thin and IBM was so successful in getting out of the PC business, HP thinks it can as well. HP has @ 50% lead each in share over the next two competitors. Unless their computers start randomly killing people in the street, no way they lose that lead in a year. Just because they have the lead in worldwide market share, doesn't mean it is profitable enough to stay in the business. If they make most of their money in big iron, peripherals, and services, then focus on those.

[vision63]

Unless you actually use and experience a TouchPad or a ________ (fill in the blank device), you can't really judge the device or the experience of using it. HP is now the official Apple Foe of the Month®

[the_poochies]

[RAMd®d]

People want a tablet.

As evidenced by the tons of non-Apple tablest sold, and the faltering sales of iPads.


And the people who can't afford the $500, $629, to $829 prices are the same people who can't afford to buy hundreds of dollars worth of apps as well.

Agreed. But that's a non-starter. It remains to be seen how many people are happy with the Touch, and remain happy. Oh, and how much they're willing to pay for it when there are no fire sales.


Sales have shown that the fire sale may have been short-sighted.

You're kidding. Sales have shown that if you sell a product cheap enough, it will fly off the shelves. HP can't sell TP for less than it costs to make it. It's not a sustainable business model, and the TP is hardly a loss-leader item. Re-evaluating their position can at times, be valuable.

I think no small portion of sales were the result of the very steep price cuts leading to the herd-effect of stampeding towards a deal.

IF they had a viable product, they shot themselves in the foot with the rapid discounting. I seriously don't think they can make money trying to sell the TP at a profit. Of course, if the cut back on materials and features, they can sell it cheap.

I want a Mercedes (no, not really) but offer me a Lexus (my jury's still out on that) for the price of a Yugo, and maybe I'll be happy without the Benz I maybe couldn't afford anyway. Or maybe I won't but will buy two and sell them on ebay or CL.


Could be.

I think it's a little more definite than that. Keep going like they are and I'll bet that in a year they won't have a comfortable lead or anything like it. I think they *have* to get out of the consumer computer business, bank on corporate sales, and maybe make a living selling peripherals to consumers. Or they will have a decidedly bad next year.


Unless you actually use and experience a TouchPad or a ________ (fill in the blank device), you can't really judge the device or the experience of using it.

If you are a critical thinker, you can get a very good idea of the pros and cons of a device by reading objective reviews from established, experienced tech reviewers. There are several out there, though there are a number of hacks and shills to wade through.

Obviously their reviews still do not qualify as you actually experiencing the device. You might or might not then re-evaluate your studied judgement.


HP is now the official Apple Foe of the Month®

Nah, they aren't even the TV movie of the week. Again, not a blip on Apple's radar.

I have nothing against HP. I don't care for any of their gear, except a printer or two. But I like the idea of quality competition, of a manufacturer not trying to catch up, but to leap ahead.

That would keep Timmie and Jonny busy, and me happy.

[Trouble]

RAMd®d wrote:
People want a tablet.

As evidenced by the tons of non-Apple tablest sold, and the faltering sales of iPads.

To paraphrase Steve "Other tablets do not need to beat the iPad in order to succeed." Apple owns the market above $500. But that isn't the only market and the overall market is in its infancy right now. And all of a sudden the TouchPad is now the number two tablet. And once a number of pieces of equipment hit a tipping point, then that market can sustain itself. Of course the stampede of purchasing was due to the cut rate prices. But that isn't the point anymore.

You keep focusing on whether the TouchPad can displace the iPad or is even better. Of course it won't and it isn't when the prices are equal. But now there is a large TouchPad marketplace and HP may decide to keep webOS because of that or raise the price of webOS.

HP may have taken a bath to get the number two market in tablets. But the point is they now have the number two market, that market has real value, and they are looking at their options. Of course, and I can't believe I have to type this, they aren't planning to sell tablets at a loss in order to make a profit. But TouchPad tablet advertising revenue has passed android tablet advertising revenue and the HP app market usage has gone up dramatically. That is why they are re-evaluating their position. It could mean different tablets (doubt it), webOS licensing (maybe), more webOD development (maybe), or selling webOS at a much higher price than a month ago (most likely).

Buying a TouchPad at $150 or $100 gives the buyer the same warranty as someone buying a used iPad that is over a year old.

No way would I recommend a TouchPad over an iPad at a similar or even slightly lower price. But if someone only has $100 then I would not hesitate recommending a TouchPad.

[RAMd®d]

You keep focusing on whether the TouchPad can displace the iPad or is even better.

Actually, I'm focusing on the belief that HP can't make the TouchPad you've described and sell it for a profit.


And once a number of pieces of equipment hit a tipping point, then that market can sustain itself. But that isn't the point anymore.

I believe that's precisely the point. They have to reach that "tipping point" and they haven't.

You keep focusing on this TP for $100. It's number two position is mainly because of the fire sales. Since you mention that position, I'll say that it would barely be ahead of the rest of the tablets were it not for those fire sales. That's not a tipping point.

I'm not sure what price point HP thinks they'll succeed in (if they reevaluate) but it won't be with this TP. They'll have to make a Lazarus edition.


I can't believe I have to type this

And I can't believe you actually believe you had to type the obvious. Let's see if HP can afford to keep it's number two spot. If somebody is happy with a TP for a $100, great. If not, they can't return it. At least not to HP. Maybe BB would take it back. But again, as long as they're happy, no worries.

At $499 for a 16G TP, it's a different story. Let's see how they do when they try to make a profit on tablet sales. Usually that's what's needed to sustain a product line. Maybe they can be successful at the $250-$300 price point.

[Trouble]

RAMd®d wrote:
You keep focusing on whether the TouchPad can displace the iPad or is even better.

Actually, I'm focusing on the belief that HP can't make the TouchPad you've described and sell it for a profit.

One more time, no one is saying that HP can make a profit on the TouchPad itself and they don't need to. The Playstation 3 took 5 years to make a profit on the hardware and the xbox finally turned a profit after 8 years or so. The point is they have the number two market and that is what is valuable. Owning that market is why they are re-evaluating their position.

RAMd®d wrote: And once a number of pieces of equipment hit a tipping point, then that market can sustain itself. But that isn't the point anymore.

I believe that's precisely the point. They have to reach that "tipping point" and they haven't.

You keep focusing on this TP for $100. It's number two position is mainly because of the fire sales. Since you mention that position, I'll say that it would barely be ahead of the rest of the tablets were it not for those fire sales. That's not a tipping point.

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. Those touchpads will reach people who will use them.

Again, I'm not focusing on the $100 tablet. Eventually that will end. I'm focusing on the marketshare. HP advertising revenue on TouchPad has already surpassed Android's and their app store sales have skyrocketed as well. Losing money on each tablet in order to bring more advertisers and more developers has made the webOS worth more than it was a month ago. Marketshare is the value.

RAMd®d wrote: And I can't believe you actually believe you had to type the obvious.

Well people kept typing it as if that was the only strategy HP had.

The tablet market is certainly big enough for several separate ecosystems.

[dotman]

now i want one. where are they at $100 bucks?

dot.

[pqrst]

Panopticon wrote:
:agree:
w/ pRICE cUBE

• PC Division: Crushed by Dell
  
• Printers & Scanners: Lost to Canon, Epson, Brother, & others
  
• Test Instruments: Spun Off
  
• Server Division: Oracle will probably buy it @ a bargain price.
  

Actually HP has a dominant position in the large format printer market and is the only company actively working on what is probably the next wave in large format printing..... using latex based pigments.