gasoline question

[OWC Jamie]

Bernie- you need to read that article.

If the title of the rag thwarts you, just do a google search for 'gasoline additives at the pump'. Research why gas prices are so high right now.

[Filliam H. Muffman]

I was going to say something very similar to BGR.

From http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv...efault.asp www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/4_oxygenated-gasoline/default.asp
"The information available to the retail consumer about the oxygenate composition of the gasoline varies. There is no federal labeling regulation; this is an area controlled by state regulations. Some states require dispenser labels for oxygenated gasolines in wintertime CO nonattainment areas and RFG gasolines. A typical label reads: The gasoline dispensed from this pump is oxygenated and will reduce carbon monoxide pollution from motor vehicles. Some labels, like this one, do not provide any information on which oxygenate(s) the blend contains; others do. Few, if any, states require labeling for gasolines containing low levels of ethers added to increase octane. A national association of state weights-and-measures agencies responsible for dispenser calibration and labeling issued a revised standard guideline for dispenser labeling in 1996. Several states recently have dropped ethanol labeling requirements and some are now requiring labeling for MTBE."

If your state has rules against the use of MTBE but requires an oxygenate, it is very likely your Chevron gas has ethanol even if it does not say so on the pump.

[sscutchen]

[quote Kiva]ethanol has replaced mtbe, at least in CA, as an additive that reduces emissions. MTBE is bad stuff...
Ethanol causes higher emissions than MTBE as an oxygenate because of it's higher vapor pressure.

It also contributes to significantly higher prices because it cannot be mixed with the gasoline until it hits the truck that goes to the station. It cannot be mixed and distributed by the various gasoline pipelines, so it must be railed from the midwest to everywhere it is used.

MTBE is a much better gasoline additive, but it got caught in a political perfect storm caused by the oil industry and the Archer Daniels Midland agricultural lobby when gas station owners did not repair their leaking underground storage tanks even though there was Federal money set aside specifically for this purpose.

Currently, the US is shipping MTBE to Europe. Europe has enforced regulations on undergound storage tanks, does not have a leaking problem and loves both MTBE and the ethanol-derived equivalent, ETBE. Europe is trans-shipping alkylate gasoline components to the US. Costs are higher is both places.

Assinine.

[macphanatic]

It seems that both our vehicles get worse gas mileage with the ethanol blends. I wonder if the pollution reduction per gallon makes up for the increased consumption?

[Racer X]

[quote AlphaDog]OK. I'm not into standing around reading gas pumps, so it could have been there for decades without me seeing it. What was the stuff they used to add to our gas during winter months only? Was it ethanol and we're now getting it all the time? I know I used to be able to see a noticeable decrease in my gas mileage for a few months each year; back then I used the car for work so bought lots of gas and kept meticulous records.
Originally winter-only back in the mid-late '90s or so. Been all year for a while. The stickers aren't terribly large, and are easy to miss. Not a big deal though. I know they started it back in '93 or early '94 in western washington.

[wowzer]

IIRC, gasoline with ethanol has gives your less miles per gallon than gasoline with MTBE.

My cars have also demonstrated less miles/gallon as a result of ethanol.

[Racer X]

Yes. BGRusty and I once tried to figure out the % of energy of ethanol vs gasoline, and thus the 10% gasahol mix energy loss. I don't recall what we ever found.

I do know that methanol has "maybe" 65-70% of the energy of gasoline, so the 10% mix isn't a huge hit, but probably a mpg or two on a modern car. If the vehicle can be retuned specifically to run gasahol, you can gain back some of that power, as the mix has a higher octane rating. I don't believe that current auto computer controls can adjust that far, it is probably outside the normal perameters.

Pure methanol for a fuel is tough with a modern car, as most have tiny 12-18 gallon tanks, so with pure methanol, it is like having a 9-14 gallon tank.

that discussion was here, I found it...< http://forums.macresource.com/read/1/89200/89292#msg-89292>

[Forrest]

NJ requires 10% ethanol in gas during summer months. I drive many miles back and forth to work and consistantly get 24 MPG during summer months and 23 MPG during winter months.

[AlphaDog]

I guess I'm going to have to go back to that station and read the pump, because now I am confused. I did a Google search and found some information posted in 2005.

Here's a link to the whole thing:

http://www.pugetsoundcleancities.org/Fue...thanol.htm

And here's a quote from that article that is confusing me more:

"The majority of ethanol is used to increase octane and improve the emissions of gasoline. Ethanol is typically combined with gasoline as a blend of 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline, known as E10. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, one out of every eight gallons of gasoline sold in the United States contains ethanol.

Use of oxygenated gasoline was mandated by the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 in areas with unhealthy levels of carbon monoxide. The primary oxygenates were ethanol and MTBE. The demand for ethanol has been increasing, as MTBE has been shown to contaminate ground water supplies. In Washington State, oxygenated gasoline is sold during the winter in areas that do not meet the federal carbon monoxide standard under the Clean Air Act. In past years, these areas were central Puget Sound and Spokane and Clark counties. The oxygenated gasoline program has been phased out in central Puget Sound and Clark County due to air quality improvements in those areas.

While low-percentage ethanol blends are sold in every state and are available in Washington, consumers typically do not have a choice between E10 and 100% gasoline. In areas where oxygenated gasoline is mandated and E10 is used to meet that mandate, the ethanol blend makes up nearly 100% of the gasoline sold. And the blend is typically not available in areas where the mandate does not apply."

-----

So, in one part of that, they say the oxyenated program has been phased out in the Puget Sound area because the air quality has improved, and it also says the blend is typically not available in areas where the mandate doesn't apply. If both things are true, then why is 90/10 fuel being sold in Seattle? And Puyallup, according to RacerX. The way I read it, Spokane County would be the only area left in the state with the mandate.

Yeh, I really am going to have to go back and read the fine print on that gas pump! Does it make a huge difference in my life? No. But now I am curious!

[sscutchen]

Australia was looking at the possible effect of 20% EtOH blends. Here's their data for 10% ethanol versus gasoline:

3.5% drop in fuel economy
14% and 16% drop in hydrocarbon and CO tailpipe emissions (fuel injected, closed loop computer control)
30% increase in evaporative emissions
10% increase in aldehyde emissions, primarily acetaldehyde
Concerns for performance at wide-open throttle (timing advance is dialed back by the computer)
Permeability of fuel through plastic parts and corrosion of metal parts in the fuel system.

Good technical information as well if you want the science. http://eriss.erin.gov.au/atmosphere/fuel...index.html