Posts: 41,881
Threads: 3,651
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
1
DP wrote:
[quote=Black]
[quote=DP]
The media has found a gold mine of ad revenue and viewer share in race-baiting. They simply can't turn outrage half way around the world into a buck as cheaply and easily.
Amen to that. I think we should be wiping these POS's off the face of the Earth. I believe they are simply psychopathic murderers who hide behind a great religion and pervert it's teachings as justification for its actions.
Who is "we?" The US? What exactly are you proposing?
Yes, the US military. ISIS, or ISIL if you prefer, is practicing genocide based on religious beliefs. They are more vicious and barbaric than the Taliban, or Al Qaeda, Hamas, Boko Haram, etc.
I believe we helped to get Iraq to this point in time and Iraq's military is either frightened enough of ISIL to run away, or in league with them, so there is no stopping the genocide. Syria, Turkey, and the Kurds are also besieged by this group. This is not unlike the Nazis "Final Solution". They need to be stopped. Now.
So we currently have a "damned if [he] doesn't." If we do intervene on the scale you're suggesting, do you think your team will still be supporting that decision heading towards November 2016?
Are you suggesting something other than long term occupation of Iraq?
Posts: 18,585
Threads: 3,277
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
0
So we currently have a "damned if [he] doesn't." If we do intervene on the scale you're suggesting, do you think your team will still be supporting that decision heading towards November 2016?
Are you suggesting something other than long term occupation of Iraq?
You are making a political issue of this and mistakenly interpreting my words as such. It's not political at all. This is a very real danger to the whole Muslim world and in the Middle-East. We see every day how radical Muslim terrorists claim a little more land everyday. We see the government in Afghanistan negotiating with the Taliban for control of areas of that country, e.g. There are many Muslims who believe these groups have the right idea-no allowance for the religious beliefs of others, women treated as slaves (where is the outrage over this?), men told they cannot ever shave or even listen to music, Sharia as the ONLY law...
How do you negotiate with or live alongside people who will kill you and your whole family if you disagree or protest? Or when their whole reason to exist is for the complete annihilation of a race? Or deal with people who murder people of their same religion, but not the same sect?
You can't. As we've seen, they will die for their "beliefs", or, more truthfully, will let underlings die for them.
Posts: 17,873
Threads: 325
Joined: Mar 2024
DP wrote:
So we currently have a "damned if [he] doesn't." If we do intervene on the scale you're suggesting, do you think your team will still be supporting that decision heading towards November 2016?
Are you suggesting something other than long term occupation of Iraq?
You are making a political issue of this and mistakenly interpreting my words as such. It's not political at all. This is a very real danger to the whole Muslim world and in the Middle-East. We see every day how radical Muslim terrorists claim a little more land everyday. We see the government in Afghanistan negotiating with the Taliban for control of areas of that country, e.g. There are many Muslims who believe these groups have the right idea-no allowance for the religious beliefs of others, women treated as slaves (where is the outrage over this?), men told they cannot ever shave or even listen to music, Sharia as the ONLY law...
How do you negotiate with or live alongside people who will kill you and your whole family if you disagree or protest? Or when their whole reason to exist is for the complete annihilation of a race? Or deal with people who murder people of their same religion, but not the same sect?
You can't. As we've seen, they will die for their "beliefs", or, more truthfully, will let underlings die for them.
Nobody is arguing with you about the danger. They've been asking you if you support a long term U.S. military occupation of Iraq, which is what military leaders (current and retired) say is the only way to destroy ISIL?
Because like it or not, once you get past the arguing about how bad the baddies are, and how great a danger they pose, the question about what to do is eminently political.
Posts: 18,585
Threads: 3,277
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
0
This is akin to the rise of the Nazis-at first, they were just a bunch of rabble rousers running around in brown shirts that everyone gave little heed, and ended with half the world in a war that saw the deaths of millions of people. It was a situation where the Nazis killed millions over concocted reasons, just like ISIL, et al., do.
Some say that it would be a new Crusade to send troops as there are many Christians being slaughtered but it involves many peoples of many religions and sects and simple beliefs.
How is trying to stop a bunch of murdering psychos political?
Posts: 10,409
Threads: 1,069
Joined: May 2025
cbelt3 wrote:
[quote=mrlynn]
Where are the Muslim leaders with the courage to stand up and condemn these vicious Islamist barbarians?
/Mr Lynn
The Saudi Wahabi leaders have called ISIS the 'Most grave threat against Islam' and called for their destruction.
The Roman Catholic Pope has decried the genocide and called upon the world to help.
And so forth.
The US media has been talking about it. But their execs have the attention span of a teenaged squirrel with ADHD. The world media has been talking about it a lot.
I am glad to see the Saudis speaking out. Maybe they'd like to start thinking about curtailing the spread of Wahabism, which has radicalized Moslems all over the world.
I'm still waiting to hear about imans in mosques in the US and elsewhere condemning the Islamo-fascists. Until the moderates stand up against these monsters, there can be no peace.
The spread of ISIS is a direct result of the power vacuum left by the US retreat from the Middle East. To destroy them will take a new 'Coalition of the Willing'.
/Mr Lynn
Posts: 17,873
Threads: 325
Joined: Mar 2024
DP wrote:
This is akin to the rise of the Nazis-at first, they were just a bunch of rabble rousers running around in brown shirts that everyone gave little heed, and ended with half the world in a war that saw the deaths of millions of people. It was a situation where the Nazis killed millions over concocted reasons, just like ISIL, et al., do.
Some say that it would be a new Crusade to send troops as there are many Christians being slaughtered but it involves many peoples of many religions and sects and simple beliefs.
How is trying to stop a bunch of murdering psychos political?
It took the U.S. over 9 years to get its military involved to stop the Nazis. Why? Domestic politics - not because people didn't know how evil they were.
That's how "trying to stop a bunch of murdering psychos [is] political".
Posts: 18,585
Threads: 3,277
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
0
It took the U.S. over 9 years to get its military involved to stop the Nazis. Why? Domestic politics - not because people didn't know how evil they were.
Then lets get past politics so it won't take so long to stop ISIL.
But there were plenty of people who thought the Nazis had the right idea. If that's what you mean by politics, then I agree.
To destroy them will take a new 'Coalition of the Willing'.
Which I would like to see first.
Posts: 17,873
Threads: 325
Joined: Mar 2024
DP wrote:
Then lets get past politics so it won't take so long to stop ISIL.
Do you have your magic "let's get past politics" wand handy? I'm not trying to be flip, but the naïveté is making it nearly impossible not to be.
If you think the U.S. is going to send 135K+ troops back into Iraq for a prolonged occupation AGAIN right now, no matter the cause, you have a very different perspective on today's politics than i do.
Posts: 18,585
Threads: 3,277
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
0
rjmacs wrote:
[quote=DP]
Then lets get past politics so it won't take so long to stop ISIL.
Do you have your magic "let's get past politics" wand handy? I'm not trying to be flip, but the naïveté is making it nearly impossible not to be.
If you think the U.S. is going to send 135K+ troops back into Iraq for a prolonged occupation AGAIN right now, no matter the cause, you have a very different perspective on today's politics than i do.
I don't think you are being flip. I never said I expected the US to send troops. I said I think we should. There are not too many situations in the world that are as serious a threat to any type of stability in the Middle East that could spread far and wide than the ISIL situation. And I agree that naïveté makes it nearly impossible.
See, we're not so far apart! 
Posts: 17,873
Threads: 325
Joined: Mar 2024
DP wrote:
[quote=rjmacs]
[quote=DP]
Then lets get past politics so it won't take so long to stop ISIL.
Do you have your magic "let's get past politics" wand handy? I'm not trying to be flip, but the naïveté is making it nearly impossible not to be.
If you think the U.S. is going to send 135K+ troops back into Iraq for a prolonged occupation AGAIN right now, no matter the cause, you have a very different perspective on today's politics than i do.
I don't think you are being flip. I never said I expected the US to send troops. I said I think we should. There are not too many situations in the world that are as serious a threat to any type of stability in the Middle East that could spread far and wide than the ISIL situation. And I agree that naïveté makes it nearly impossible.
See, we're not so far apart!
One thing that might help to destabilize ISIL would be the conscious cultivation of a real power-sharing government in Baghdad in which Shi'a, Sunni, and Kurdish players all have an actual stake. ISIL could not have taken so much territory in Iraq without the implicit cooperation/silence of many Sunni Iraqis who feel under attack from a Shi'a-dominated government in Baghdad which continues to foment sectarian division for political and economic gain.
|
