auto experts: ball joints and control arms?

[mrbigstuff]

If the control arms have never been done, you should do them.

[Cary]

If parts are available, you can replace ball joints and bushings. It just is a lot more work, and generally more expensive due to that.

[Harbourmaster]

Back when I was a kid, and cars were made of solid steel, EVERYTHING was replaceable and that’s how you repaired stuff.

The only REAL reason to replace a control arm is if it’s damaged or rusted beyond safety.

Mechanics these days suffer from the same illness as most young folks. You don’t even try to fix something you just replace it with a new one.

[Racer X]

Harbourmaster wrote:
Back when I was a kid, and cars were made of solid steel, EVERYTHING was replaceable and that’s how you repaired stuff.

The only REAL reason to replace a control arm is if it’s damaged or rusted beyond safety.

Mechanics these days suffer from the same illness as most young folks. You don’t even try to fix something you just replace it with a new one.

yes, but if you are wrestling with presses and clamps for 3 hours pressing out and in bushings and joints, plus the cost of parts, when for 1.5 hours of labor cost, you can buy replacement control arms already done, you are expected to. It's cheaper for the customer. Many newer vehicles have aluminum control arms not really designed to replace the joints and bushings in. You can, but it isn't a best practice.

I have run across lower control arms where the hole for the lower ball joint wasn't round and the proper size. I had them reamed and used oversized ball joints. What do you do when you can't ream them oversized because oversized parts aren't avail?

I must confess, when I gut the suspension on my Skylark, I might buy the repro control arms with joints, and poly bushings already installed. After having a shop press out and press in the parts, and buy the parts, I can get the repro arms for about the same price as a set, and have my originals as spares in case of an accident.

[mrbigstuff]

Racer X wrote:
[quote=Harbourmaster]
Back when I was a kid, and cars were made of solid steel, EVERYTHING was replaceable and that’s how you repaired stuff.

The only REAL reason to replace a control arm is if it’s damaged or rusted beyond safety.

Mechanics these days suffer from the same illness as most young folks. You don’t even try to fix something you just replace it with a new one.

yes, but if you are wrestling with presses and clamps for 3 hours pressing out and in bushings and joints, plus the cost of parts, when for 1.5 hours of labor cost, you can buy replacement control arms already done, you are expected to. It's cheaper for the customer. Many newer vehicles have aluminum control arms not really designed to replace the joints and bushings in. You can, but it isn't a best practice.

I have run across lower control arms where the hole for the lower ball joint wasn't round and the proper size. I had them reamed and used oversized ball joints. What do you do when you can't ream them oversized because oversized parts aren't avail?

I must confess, when I gut the suspension on my Skylark, I might buy the repro control arms with joints, and poly bushings already installed. After having a shop press out and press in the parts, and buy the parts, I can get the repro arms for about the same price as a set, and have my originals as spares in case of an accident.
yeah, this. I did it years ago on an A-Body GM but with the new arms, they are super tight tolerances. you need a really good press, not just c-clamps to get that sucker in. not something that the diy person has at their disposal. then there is the price, as racer said. it drives me crazy that a huge piece of aluminum is tossed aside, when it takes so much energy to manufacture and all it needs is a rubber bushing.

[JoeH]

mrbigstuff wrote:
it drives me crazy that a huge piece of aluminum is tossed aside, when it takes so much energy to manufacture and all it needs is a rubber bushing.

Auto parts like control arms are largely sold with a core charge. The used part gets returned for a credit. Most get used for remanufactured parts after being evaluated for damage that would preclude being reused. Bushings and other wear parts get replaced using proper tooling, the part gets sold. Those that are damaged get recycled. They are not just tossed aside.

[mrbigstuff]

JoeH wrote:
[quote=mrbigstuff]
it drives me crazy that a huge piece of aluminum is tossed aside, when it takes so much energy to manufacture and all it needs is a rubber bushing.

Auto parts like control arms are largely sold with a core charge. The used part gets returned for a credit. Most get used for remanufactured parts after being evaluated for damage that would preclude being reused. Bushings and other wear parts get replaced using proper tooling, the part gets sold. Those that are damaged get recycled. They are not just tossed aside.
They maybe recycled but they are not usually subject to a core charge. You may be the thinking of brake calipers.

[JoeH]

mrbigstuff wrote:
[quote=JoeH]
[quote=mrbigstuff]
it drives me crazy that a huge piece of aluminum is tossed aside, when it takes so much energy to manufacture and all it needs is a rubber bushing.

Auto parts like control arms are largely sold with a core charge. The used part gets returned for a credit. Most get used for remanufactured parts after being evaluated for damage that would preclude being reused. Bushings and other wear parts get replaced using proper tooling, the part gets sold. Those that are damaged get recycled. They are not just tossed aside.
They maybe recycled but they are not usually subject to a core charge. You may be the thinking of brake calipers.
I have seen core charges on just about any suspension assembly that is a replacement for an OEM part when I have bought them in the past. I know my mechanic gets the core charges as well, but he doesn't pass on the credit to me. Instead he collects that and charges a bit lower labor rates than some other shops in the area.

I have not seen core charges on performance replacement parts as the part coming off will not be usable as a core by the manufacturer. Components such as the ball joints or tie rod ends also do not have core charges.

[mrbigstuff]

JoeH wrote:
[quote=mrbigstuff]
[quote=JoeH]
[quote=mrbigstuff]
it drives me crazy that a huge piece of aluminum is tossed aside, when it takes so much energy to manufacture and all it needs is a rubber bushing.

Auto parts like control arms are largely sold with a core charge. The used part gets returned for a credit. Most get used for remanufactured parts after being evaluated for damage that would preclude being reused. Bushings and other wear parts get replaced using proper tooling, the part gets sold. Those that are damaged get recycled. They are not just tossed aside.
They maybe recycled but they are not usually subject to a core charge. You may be the thinking of brake calipers.
I have seen core charges on just about any suspension assembly that is a replacement for an OEM part when I have bought them in the past. I know my mechanic gets the core charges as well, but he doesn't pass on the credit to me. Instead he collects that and charges a bit lower labor rates than some other shops in the area.

I have not seen core charges on performance replacement parts as the part coming off will not be usable as a core by the manufacturer. Components such as the ball joints or tie rod ends also do not have core charges.
You may want to check with your mechanic on those sort of extra charges.

I'll give you some examples of cars I've recently (within the last few years) worked on:

2008 Nissan
Control Arms - no core charge
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/niss...+arm,10401
Brake Calipers - core charge
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/niss...0206,brake+&+wheel+hub,caliper,1704

2000 Volvo
Control Arms - no core charge
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volv...+arm,10401

Brake Calipers - core charge
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volv...4013,brake+&+wheel+hub,caliper,1704

[AllGold]

I have it scheduled with my regular shop now...

But I'm thinking maybe the Rock Auto thing is the way to go with a dealer service shop (called and got a quote and they said I could bring my own parts and that theirs were very expensive). The reason I was shopping around is because the location is a PITA, plus they always want me to drop the car off the night before or first thing in the morning. Both are spectacularly inconvenient (no spouse and no second car).

In the past I have been able to arrange to bring the vehicle in early afternoon and wait, but in this case they don't do the alignment in house so they said that wouldn't work.