going organic, part 1, questions

[JEBB]

I think it's all a sham. Organic = higher prices = higher profits. You buy their organic stuff and they can make their boat payments. If all the stuff that is supposedly in the foods is bad for us, why are people living longer than ever? I doubt there is anything new there in amounts that are bad for anything, you or your friendly mice or cockroaches.

[Z]

I don't know where you are located and what options you have in terms of grocery stores, but a few thoughts:

1. See if there is a local CSA (Community Supported Agriculture). You can typically get a weekly or less frequent box of fruit and vegetables from a farm or farms in your region. A bit tricky here in Alaska, but there are a few options in Anchorage, one being out of Washington state and another from the Matanuska Valley, about 40 miles away, both of which have weekly options.

http://www.localharvest.org/ (with more discussion here: http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/003810.php)

2. Shop around. Other grocery stores than your usual one, Target, Costco, organic co-op, Sam's, local ethnic stores or other places may provide for some cost savings. We went to five stores this past Saturday in the span of 2 hours to cover most of our groceries for the week.

3. If possible, buy in bulk. This will help with the generally somewhat higher cost. Check around to see if you can't purchase a half or whole side of locally grown beef, pork, turkey or similar to economize. Perhaps a friend or coworker would be interested in splitting the meat.

4. Someone is going to quote the study that says effectively, 'no measurable health benefits from organic food'. While that could be true (haven't looked at the study or considered their methods myself), it will probably taste better and be more sustainable in the long run.

5. Cut back on soda/pop. I like sugar as much as the next person, but there are better places to get my calories, thank you. Juice + carbonated water has a nice bite.

...anyway, just a few quick thoughts. Glad to answer additional, specific questions if I can help, though I sure don't claim to know everything.

[Carnos Jax]

I'll post more about this later...but it's not all a sham. While I too suspect that some recent entrants into the organic marketplace are pushing the rules for the sake of profit, on it's own organic food WILL BE better for you than conventionally grown food (the only question is how much better?).

The reason for this is evident through a simple thought exercise. Basically the idea is the less your immune system has to handle, the less likelihood of disease manifesting itself. If you task your immune system beyond it's capabilities, then disease appears. Of course your immune systems capabilities are determined by such factors as diet, sleep, exercise, stress, etc. But even an immune system in optimal condition can only handle so much of a disease causing agent. Therefore if organic foods have significantly less of a chemical load than conventional foods, then your immune system has less to deal with. And in a statistically large enough population set, that should show itself.

And besides, it's hard to draw the conclusion that chemicals aren't bad for you if we have a longer life. There are other factors that may be more important, like better medical care, far less physical labor...to name a few.

[NewtonMP2100]

....very tantric and takes a lot of discipline....




....oops...sorry thought you said you were going ORGASMIC....!

[OWC Jamie]

You shouldn't be finding hormones in anything but beef and dairy products.

Leeching of plastics supposedly increases with temp, so for frozen less risk.

Organic is tough because the definition is rather vague.

Avoiding processed foods can go a long way towards hopefully healthier eating.

[dk62]

I am not generally as crazy about organic as my wife frequently is, but I absolutely agree that meat and dairy products should be consumed hormone-free, if at all possible. US is one of the rare developed regions of the world where political considerations allowed production of hormone-laden meat and milk.

Beef is particularly full of hormones. We usually buy buffalo (all supermarkets in our area carry it) or Australian beef (Trader Joe's). Milk we always buy organic, and try to stick with organic butter. Cheese is difficult to find, but the kids do not eat much of it anyway and the adults usually stick with European-produced varieties.

Chicken is tough, as organic is much more expensive than the regular stuff, but is still within the range of prices for other meats.

I am not sure any of that is associated with inflammation, though - I thought that fat content had more to do with it, but I am definitely not an expert.

[dk62]

Oh, and locally-grown does not necessarily mean organic. I think people are mixing two "politically correct" terms.

And finally, realize that eating organic and locally produced food can be considered somewhat elitist. There is no way that the population of Earth can be fed by small operations or organically-grown produce. Therefore, the majority of humans have only the choice of eating "artificially" grown/produced food - or starving. So it may be OK for you to wish to feed your family with "good" food, but there is no way that the practice can be proselytized.

[davester]

You're kind of talking apples and oranges here (so to speak). If it's hormones you're trying to rid yourselves of, then you need to concentrate on farmed animal products (dairy, meat, fish). I stick to wild fish, and organic chicken, beef and milk for the most part (though I try not to be fanatical and will buy non-organic if the cut I want is not available as organic), and in general those organic products are much better quality and often taste better than the nonorganic kind. In general, my philosophy is to buy smaller quantities of higher quality animal foods for about the same amount of money and I'm much happier and healthier than when I used to buy larger quantities of cheaper stuff.

As for pesticides, that's an entirely different kettle of fish (so to speak). The jury is still out on whether the levels of residual pesticides in our foods is harmful or not. Unfortunately, the public attitudes on this are more akin to religious beliefs than reasoned understandings (both the pro- and anti- pesticide groups). Here's a fairly objective article on this topic: http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/FactShee...nsumer.cfm .

I tend to buy organic versions of most veggies and fruit (but again, I'm not fanatical about it) because I can pick them up for not much more than the non-organic versions. Of course, that means avoiding Whole Foods, which is the expensive way to go.

Have you looked around for alternative food sources? Your comment of "I've never seen a sign in the meat department" indicates that you're limiting your choices by shopping at a mainstream supermarket. Look around...there's a lot more than the local supermarket, and the prices of those alternate stores are all over the map, both high and low.

[ztirffritz]

What is really difficult about researching this stuff is that there is SOOOO much money involved on both sides that are spewing propaganda. And the biased parties are EXTREMELY biased. The meat and produce groups say that there is absolutely no harm, none, NONE I tell you! The hippie/vegan/localvores say that eating any of it will kill you. DEAD. No question about it. Don't even look at non-organic food it might give you eye cancer.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. It doesn't take a genius to realize that eating foods pumped full of pesticides and hormones can't be good for you. But it surely isn't as bad for you as some people will tell you. Doing it occasionally probably isn't a problem, but as a regular part of the diet it is a problem. When they give cows hormones to make them bigger and produce more milk you have to realize that we are mammals too. We drink that milk and eat that beef. The hormones come with it. Boobs are for more than holding a bikini top up. They are actually functional too. And they're likely affected by hormones the same way as in cows. On the flip side, as has been mentioned above, our current society simply can't function without industrial farming techniques. It would be nice if everyone had a garden in their back yard but we don't and that still won't feed a family of 4 even if we did. I think that the best solution is to figure out what gives you the best bang for the buck and find a balance. For my wife and it was beef and eggs. For someone else maybe it is chicken and fish. If you can afford to go all organic...by all means, go for it. But it probably isn't necessary to go to that extreme. We try to support local agriculture as much as possible but not to the extent that it becomes an obstacle in our lives. It's easy because of where we live. We live in one of the most agriculturally productive areas in the US. If we can support local farms then they don't need to ship stuff...then it doesn't need to be processed as much and doesn't need to be preserved as much. Other areas though don't have that luxury.

[btfc]

The organic movement has proven that it is practical to grow food without all the chemicals and pesticides. As demand increases, more farmers are changing the way they operate, supply will increase, and prices will drop.