Five Ways Steve Jobs Can Turn On Apple TV Sales

[Will Collier]

One big stumbling block in my opinion is that the ATV itself is so content-free. Downloading or renting of movies and/or TV just isn't something that has broad acceptance right now outside of the "enthusiast" communities. That makes the ATV a lot like the pre-iTMS iPod, meaning you have to bring your own content.

This is a huge problem for both Apple and the ATV, because the vast majority of video content owned by potential customers is on DVDs. Apple is in no position to be telling people to go and rip their DVDs (not least because Jobs is effectively the CEO of Disney as well as Apple), which unlike ripping CDs is notionally illegal (insert fair use arguments here). And even if Apple did give everybody a nudge-nudge wink-wink to just go download Handbrake or Mac The Ripper, the ATV lacks the storage capacity for more than a small number of discs.

Now, an ATV (or better yet in my opinion, a Mini) plus a home server makes a pretty darn good living room appliance... but Apple doesn't have a home server option, and because of the above DVD limitations, until and unless downloading video hits the mainstream, all that is making the ATV something of an orphan product for the near future.

[chipste®]

With companies like Time Warner introducing metered internet service, you may find downloading movies via Apple, Netflix, etc. a tad more expensive. They are putting a cap on downloads per month and charging up to 1.50 per gig for "overuse". Its just a matter of time before other ISPs jump on this wagon.

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[quote Will Collier][quote BigGuynRusty][quote jdc][quote Mike V]Let it play DivX.
people really use that? Yeppers, works damn fine!
Looks better than that SlowAss H.264.

BGnR
Absolutely true. H.264 converters still can't handle panning shots very well at all
I never noticed. They seem fine to me. Any outside corroboration for your contention?

Regarding the ATV, I think it's a classic case of "old Apple disease." It's underpowered, overpriced, too proprietary, under-marketed and over-sold (in other words, it's not marketed well, and where it is marketed, it's made out to be more than it actually is). Reminds me of the entire Mac line from about 1995.

Wow.

Underpowered how?
Overpriced compared to what?
"Too proprietary?" Could your explain, please?
"made out to be more than it actually is" Explain that one too.

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[quote Will Collier]One big stumbling block in my opinion is that the ATV itself is so content-free. Downloading or renting of movies and/or TV just isn't something that has broad acceptance right now outside of the "enthusiast" communities.
You're probably right about that. It's a shame because the Apple TV is the first device that makes the experience simple, pain-free, and enjoyable.

the ATV lacks the storage capacity for more than a small number of discs.

No problem--Apple TV is a very capable streaming client.

Now, an ATV (or better yet in my opinion, a Mini) plus a home server makes a pretty darn good living room appliance... but Apple doesn't have a home server option

A mini is not suitable as a modern home theatre source--no HDMI, no HDCP, no fuss-free, automatic HDTV support. Geeks only.

BTW, Apple doesn't need to provide a "home server." That's for geeks only too. You've already got your Macs--use them and your Airport Extreme.

[Will Collier]

[quote Article Accelerator][quote Will Collier]One big stumbling block in my opinion is that the ATV itself is so content-free. Downloading or renting of movies and/or TV just isn't something that has broad acceptance right now outside of the "enthusiast" communities.
You're probably right about that. It's a shame because the Apple TV is the first device that makes the experience simple, pain-free, and enjoyable.

the ATV lacks the storage capacity for more than a small number of discs.

No problem--Apple TV is a very capable streaming client.

Now, an ATV (or better yet in my opinion, a Mini) plus a home server makes a pretty darn good living room appliance... but Apple doesn't have a home server option

A mini is not suitable as a modern home theatre source--no HDMI, no HDCP, no fuss-free, automatic HDTV support. Geeks only.

BTW, Apple doesn't need to provide a "home server." That's for geeks only too. You've already got your Macs--use them and your Airport Extreme.
You're trying to have it both ways. Either you accept downloading everything from Apple (which is clearly a small niche business right now as far as movies and TV are concerned) or you have (a) the ability and (b) the storage space to rip the media you already own. The ATV gives you the first, but nobody much wants that now. Based on the picture quality of the original iTMS movies, I can understand why (although I freely admit I haven't seen any since right after the original ATV was announced). Maybe things will change, but they haven't yet. For the second, you have to have either a server or a Mac with bigger hard drives than Apple sells right now, "geek" or no geek. Home servers are going to be a very big business in the next decade, and I'd personally love to see Apple get an early foothold. A footlocker for ATV content would be a great place to start.

Regarding underpowered and proprietary, it's already been touched on in this thread: no codecs other than Quicktime, no ripping of commercial DVDs (although that's not Apple's fault), very limited storage space, no way to play Blu-Rays, etc. And you're limited to Apple's own content as far as downloading goes. That's way too limited (there's your over-sold, at least in part). Lack of DVR integration or capability is another big sticking point. There just aren't that many people out there who are willing to pay a couple of bucks for every TV show they might want to watch/record.

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[quote Will Collier]The ATV gives you the first, but nobody much wants that now. Based on the picture quality of the original iTMS movies, I can understand why (although I freely admit I haven't seen any since right after the original ATV was announced).
Yes, I think Apple did a poor initial job of promoting and marketing the Apple TV. Unfortunately, as your post attests, it still haunts them to this day. The fact is, it has always been a very capable device. The iTS's HD offerings look--and sound--terrific.

Regarding underpowered and proprietary, it's already been touched on in this thread: no codecs other than Quicktime

Apple supports the H.264 standard. It's a great choice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264
"H.264 can often perform radically better than MPEG-2 video—typically obtaining the same quality at half of the bit rate or less, especially on high bit rate and high resolution situations"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DivX
"Since the standardization of H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, also known as MPEG-4 Part 10, a new generation of codecs has arisen, such as x264 and Nero AG's Nero Digital AVC codec. Despite being at a relatively early stage of development, these codecs out-performed DivX in Doom9's 2005 quality test, thanks to the more advanced features of MPEG-4 Part 10"

(see also the section entitled "Applications"--H.264 enjoys huge, widespread support)

There just aren't that many people out there who are willing to pay a couple of bucks for every TV show they might want to watch/record.

That's true. OTOH, the situation is very different for those who have walked away from the cable and satellite gatekeepers. Things are changing.

(BTW, I still don't get that "panning shots" assertion. Where did you hear that?)

[Will Collier]

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(BTW, I still don't get that "panning shots" assertion. Where did you hear that?)
I didn't hear it, I see it in everything I've ever transcoded to H.264. Still shots look great, motion looks great, pans look like garbage. I don't doubt that performance is better when it's a first-time encode from DV, though.

[Will Collier]

[quote Article Accelerator]That's true. OTOH, the situation is very different for those who have walked away from the cable and satellite gatekeepers. Things are changing.
I can tell you in four notes why that's always going to be a very small group: E-S-P-N.

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[quote Will Collier][quote Article Accelerator]

(BTW, I still don't get that "panning shots" assertion. Where did you hear that?)
I didn't hear it, I see it in everything I've ever transcoded to H.264. Still shots look great, motion looks great, pans look like garbage. I don't doubt that performance is better when it's a first-time encode from DV, though.
Well, that's not my experience at all. H.264 is a very flexible codec. Perhaps our different experiences are due to differing encoding settings?

[vision63]

guitarist, thanks for the great explanation. I appreciate that. There's nothing flat in my house yet (other than computer screens). Hopefully that'll change soon.