Latinx. ???

[DeusxMac]

Tiangou wrote:
[quote=DeusxMac]
[quote=Tiangou]
You're taking this very personally.

I assure you that I would never take it to such extremes.

I’m still waiting for an explanation of ”white American middle school rules”

https://forums.macresource.com/read.php?...sg-2926016
Is there a better way to describe how kids are taught Spanish in this country?

There's no group in any nation on earth that speaks Spanish the way kids learn it in school in the USA.
But your initial post clearly implies that the use of gender in teaching Spanish is specifically a result of “white American middle school rules”.

Are you claiming that, as I asked previously, when Spanish is taught in India or Botswana it does NOT have grammatical gender?

p.s. Thoughq I remember very little Spanish from that long ago, my middle school Spanish teacher was a woman who was born a grew up in Spain.

[Tiangou]

DeusxMac wrote:
But your initial post clearly implies that the use of gender in teaching Spanish is specifically a result of “white American middle school rules”.

You're inferring something that was in no way implied.

Here's what I wrote:

"Spanish" as a single language that follows rigid white-American-middle-school rules does not exist.

Here's what I meant:

Language doesn't follow those silly rigid rules that they push in American schools.

You know what happens when my friends from Spain, Puerto Rico, Argentina and Mexico get together?

After the first few minutes, someone uses a word the others don't know and they spend the next 20 minutes refreshing each other on their language differences.

But they're all speaking SPANISH.

Get it?

[DeusxMac]

Tiangou wrote:
[quote=DeusxMac]
But your initial post clearly implies that the use of gender in teaching Spanish is specifically a result of “white American middle school rules”.

You're inferring something that was in no way implied.

Here's what I wrote:

"Spanish" as a single language that follows rigid white-American-middle-school rules does not exist.

Here's what I meant:

Language doesn't follow those silly rigid rules that they push in American schools.

You know what happens when my friends from Spain, Puerto Rico, Argentina and Mexico get together?

After the first few minutes, someone uses a word the others don't know and they spend the next 20 minutes refreshing each other on their language differences.

But they're all speaking SPANISH.

Get it?
Then you went WAY off-topic, conflating “gender identity” with “grammatical gender”… which is what I and other posters here responded to.

[Ombligo]

There are regional dialects, but the basic structure is unchanged. It is no different than any language slang.

Fun example - We had a family member visiting from Honduras and knowing the different meanings I took her to dinner at a Mexican restaurant with a huge sign advertising chimichungas (which is essentially a fried burrito in Mexico). Driving in she started having a fit and refusing to get out of the car. In Honduras a chimichunga is slang for sex.

As far as teaching the language, most schools teach the proper ustedes version from Spain. It is stiff, but grammatically correct and understood by any Spanish speaker.

[Tiangou]

DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=Tiangou]
[quote=DeusxMac]
But your initial post clearly implies that the use of gender in teaching Spanish is specifically a result of “white American middle school rules”.

You're inferring something that was in no way implied.

Here's what I wrote:

"Spanish" as a single language that follows rigid white-American-middle-school rules does not exist.

Here's what I meant:

Language doesn't follow those silly rigid rules that they push in American schools.

You know what happens when my friends from Spain, Puerto Rico, Argentina and Mexico get together?

After the first few minutes, someone uses a word the others don't know and they spend the next 20 minutes refreshing each other on their language differences.

But they're all speaking SPANISH.

Get it?
Then you went WAY off-topic, conflating “gender identity” with “grammatical gender”… which is what I and other posters here responded to.
Gender, as it's been used historically in Latin languages (and by no means exclusively in Latin languages), reinforces a patriarchy and colonial mindset.

But language evolves. It ALWAYS evolves to meet the social challenges of the current generation of speakers.

https://web.archive.org/web/201908212006...of-latinx/

...there are precedents for such sea changes — in fact, contemporary Spanishes are the result of one of them: When Classical Latin was interpreted by the diverse communities with which it came into contact, vulgar variants added definite articles, reduced or eliminated noun-declensions and cases (abandoning genitive and dative, modifying ablative and accusative). These reformations shaped how fundamental linguistic units like nouns and adjectives could be used. It is not unlike the ways x has grown into the linguistic vacuum created by a culture that values inclusivity over the ideologies embedded in a and o.

Situated in new circumstances, languages change radically.

The shift toward x in reference to people has already occurred in many communities. Both traditional and inclusive grammar appear in the humanities department at the University of Puerto Rico; for many faculty, hermanx and niñx and their equivalents have been the standard on syllabi, email, and formal and informal departmental memos, among other documents, for years. It is clear that the inclusive approach to nouns and adjectives is becoming more common, and while it may at some point become the prevailing tendency, presently there is no prescriptive control toward either syntax.

This situation has resulted in structures that appear unpronounceable in Spanish, which has been met with confusion and disregard from some. However, as Roy Pérez of Willamette University observes, “We learn to pronounce new things all the time.”

“Spanish is evolving to be more inclusive,” writes Yessina Funes, and it’s “more than a middle finger to the patriarchy.” It is a recognition of the exclusionary nature of our institutions, of the deficiencies in existent linguistic structures, and of language as an agent of social change.

Latinx has also been singled out as a Eurocentric reiteration of ideologies that obfuscate indigenous, African, and other non-European heritages. Kurly Tlapoyawa has inquired, “why [do] the promoters of the Latinx term feel the need to cling to a Eurocentric/anti-indigenous identity in the first place?”

Lissette Rolón, a professor of comparative literature at the University of Puerto Rico, has pointed out, “We do not have to agree on the strategy. But suffice it to recognize that the o does not name all of us.”

[Speedy]

My wife was a prof in the “Department of Hispanic Studies” and decried the use of the x. But then she is old and has retired so nobody cares what she thinks anymore.

[Ombligo]

It is a solution looking for a problem

[sekker]

Well, this thread had quite the journey…

I learned something new. For example, cbelt will forever be ‘spotted pink person’ to me!

I hope everyone else has some time away and has a beer on me - assuming that word ending in an X is ok to use…

[vision63]

Lemon Drop wrote:
[quote=$tevie]
[quote=Tiangou]
[quote=$tevie]
[quote=Tiangou]
[quote=$tevie]
It is rather odd to attempt gender neutrality in a language where every noun has a gender.

Gender isn't binary. It is when using Spanish nouns.
That's not true.

It was never true.

"Spanish" as a single language that follows rigid white-American-middle-school rules does not exist.

Gendering a language is a mental shortcut. Language is complex.

As is gender.
You are going to have to explain what you mean, instead of just throwing out tidbits that lean towards snottiness.
Agree.
I speak French fluently.

Every noun is "gendered." It is not related to human gender characteristics and identities.

A chair is female, la chaise
Cheese is male, le fromage
The words for breast and vagina are masculine.

There is no logic to it, these have to be memorized
when you learn the language.
This comes from Latin so you see it in romance languages, and in other languages as well.



I'm woth sekker on this. Let people call themselves what they like. The urge to judge it says more about the person doing the judging.
Multi-lingual. You're such a boss.

[Janit]

cbelt3 wrote:
Well put ! Naming a people is the prerogative of the people.

I mostly refer to myself as a spotted pink person. Or melanin deficient Celt.

Greetings from another spotted pink person. This turns out to be a good description of many Ashkenazi Jews, who can range from spotted pink to olive-melanated, with occasional darker variants.