Anybody see Rev. Jeremiah Wright on Moyer?

[Lux Interior]

I agree that they should get paid whatever their sheep will pay them.

I also think they should be paying income tax on all those donations.

[guitarist]

[quote Lux Interior]I agree that they should get paid whatever their sheep will pay them.

I also think they should be paying income tax on all those donations.
Right on Lux!

I agree. Their congregation can compensate them however they wish. And their compensation is a matter of public record, and the public is free to draw whatever conclusions it wishes.

The tax-free status of the church invites abuse of the privilege. I rarely agree with our European counterparts on matters of state policy, but Europe isn't nearly as tolerant of TV Evangelists and money-grubbing religious hucksterism as the U.S. is. (their restrictions on religious institutions reflect the differences in their revolutionary history, their religious institutions were historically more murderous and powerful than ours) Here we not only tolerate the abuses, our tax dollars support and enable it.

[$tevie]

[quote guitarist]The larger point here is that guys like Wright pale in comparison to the leaders who's torch they claim to carry, figures like Martin Luther King. Compared to King's legacy, Wright is a self-aggrandizing pretender. A midget.
Reverend Wright is part of a direct line back to MLK.

"As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they asked -- and rightly so -- what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent."

"What do the [Vietnamese] peasants think as we ally ourselves with the landlords and as we refuse to put any action into our many words concerning land reform? What do they think as we test our latest weapons on them, just as the Germans tested out new medicine and new tortures in the concentration camps of Europe? Where are the roots of the independent Vietnam we claim to be building? Is it among these voiceless ones?"

"We have destroyed their two most cherished institutions: the family and the village. We have destroyed their land and their crops. We have cooperated in the crushing of the nation's only non-Communist revolutionary political force -- the unified Buddhist church. We have supported the enemies of the peasants of Saigon. We have corrupted their women and children and killed their men. What liberators?"

"At this point I should make it clear that while I have tried in these last few minutes to give a voice to the voiceless on Vietnam and to understand the arguments of those who are called enemy, I am as deeply concerned about our troops there as anything else. For it occurs to me that what we are submitting them to in Vietnam is not simply the brutalizing process that goes on in any war where armies face each other and seek to destroy. We are adding cynicism to the process of death, for they must know after a short period there that none of the things we claim to be fighting for are really involved. Before long they must know that their government has sent them into a struggle among Vietnamese, and the more sophisticated surely realize that we are on the side of the wealthy and the secure while we create hell for the poor."

"We must move past indecision to action. We must find new ways to speak for peace in Vietnam and justice throughout the developing world -- a world that borders on our doors. If we do not act we shall surely be dragged down the long dark and shameful corridors of time reserved for those who possess power without compassion, might without morality, and strength without sight."

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html

[Black Landlord]

Great quote, thank you.

[quote $tevie][quote guitarist]The larger point here is that guys like Wright pale in comparison to the leaders who's torch they claim to carry, figures like Martin Luther King. Compared to King's legacy, Wright is a self-aggrandizing pretender. A midget.
Reverend Wright is part of a direct line back to MLK.

"As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they asked -- and rightly so -- what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent."

"What do the [Vietnamese] peasants think as we ally ourselves with the landlords and as we refuse to put any action into our many words concerning land reform? What do they think as we test our latest weapons on them, just as the Germans tested out new medicine and new tortures in the concentration camps of Europe? Where are the roots of the independent Vietnam we claim to be building? Is it among these voiceless ones?"

"We have destroyed their two most cherished institutions: the family and the village. We have destroyed their land and their crops. We have cooperated in the crushing of the nation's only non-Communist revolutionary political force -- the unified Buddhist church. We have supported the enemies of the peasants of Saigon. We have corrupted their women and children and killed their men. What liberators?"

"At this point I should make it clear that while I have tried in these last few minutes to give a voice to the voiceless on Vietnam and to understand the arguments of those who are called enemy, I am as deeply concerned about our troops there as anything else. For it occurs to me that what we are submitting them to in Vietnam is not simply the brutalizing process that goes on in any war where armies face each other and seek to destroy. We are adding cynicism to the process of death, for they must know after a short period there that none of the things we claim to be fighting for are really involved. Before long they must know that their government has sent them into a struggle among Vietnamese, and the more sophisticated surely realize that we are on the side of the wealthy and the secure while we create hell for the poor."

"We must move past indecision to action. We must find new ways to speak for peace in Vietnam and justice throughout the developing world -- a world that borders on our doors. If we do not act we shall surely be dragged down the long dark and shameful corridors of time reserved for those who possess power without compassion, might without morality, and strength without sight."

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html

[guitarist]

"Reverend Wright is part of a direct line back to MLK"

Thanks for providing the example to make my point. Reverent Wright is not a "direct line" back to MLK. Quoting MLK only reinforces my original observation, thank you.

[$tevie]

All I can figure out is that you like your angry black men to be more eloquent when they condemn the US government than you find Wright to be.

[BigGuynRusty]

[quote guitarist][quote BigGuynRusty][quote lafinfil]As he was pointing out, we (the USA) had in the past treated many of it's lesser poorly. "Lesser"??
Racist statement.
As you can see, most folks don't realize when they are making racist/hatred statements.

BGnR
One can only guess RGnR is being facetious, though "lesser" isn't the best word choice, seemed clear enough to me that he meant "less fortunate" (disadvantaged, etc.) and there's no question that American history has plenty of contradictions here.

How charitable and generous we are, how well we as a society treat the less fortunate (poor, hungry, sick, elderly, disadvantaged etc.) is more of a moral and social question than a legal or political one. I see you can neither Type, nor Read (it is BGnR), Lafinfil wrote what he meant, "Lesser".

BGnR

[guitarist]

[quote BigGuynRusty]
I see you can neither Type, nor Read (it is BGnR), Lafinfil wrote what he meant, "Lesser".

BGnR
Reading and writing instructions from a guy who isolates one word from a text and points the finger "racist comment!" Not unusual. A lot of people instinctively slap the label "racist" liberally on any infraction they see, then congratulate themselves. Whether the person or their intentions are actually racist or not is beside the point. What's important is to enforce politically-correct language requirements and try to make the label stick, even if the charges are false. Devaluing the "racist" label until it's meaningless is a good thing! All the better to disarm people who overuse it. The more useless the label is, the better.

[BigGuynRusty]

[quote guitarist][quote BigGuynRusty]
I see you can neither Type, nor Read (it is BGnR), Lafinfil wrote what he meant, "Lesser".

BGnR
Reading and writing instructions from a guy who isolates one word from a text and points the finger "racist comment!" Not unusual. A lot of people instinctively slap the label "racist" liberally on any infraction they see, then congratulate themselves. Whether the person or their intentions are actually racist or not is beside the point. What's important is to enforce politically-correct language requirements and try to make the label stick, even if the charges are false. Devaluing the "racist" label until it's meaningless is a good thing! All the better to disarm people who overuse it. The more useless the label is, the better. I guess you have never suffered through racism.
I did not isolate anything, that is what he wrote, "Lesser".
Verbosity on your part does not denote understanding.
Too bad, all that effort with no payoff.

BGnR

[guitarist]

[quote BigGuynRusty]
I guess you have never suffered through racism.
And you have? Was there 'suffering" associated with the word that offended you? Did it hurt your feelings?

[quote BigGuynRusty]I did not isolate anything, that is what he wrote, "Lesser".
Verbosity on your part does not denote understanding.
Too bad, all that effort with no payoff.
Lack of writing ability, and an inability to offer an adequate defense for your PC language-cop false-alarm baloney doesn't excuse frivolous charges of racism. But like i said, keep doing it, the word has less value every time it's misused, which is better for all concerned.