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Filliam H. Muffman wrote:
[quote=DP]
The biggest problem tho is pollution. In many parts of the country you put more pollution in the air by charging an electric car than burning gasoline.
Do you have any statistics or calculations to back that up? The two might be close in a city that gets electricity only from coal and comparing the electric car to a new hybrid.
I personally don't see air pollution as the biggest challenge facing this country at the moment, but there is devastating environmental destruction involved in farming these resources-- not even talking about occasional events like nuclear meltdowns and off-shore drilling disasters.
http://mountainjustice.org/facts/steps.php
for one.
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Black wrote:
[quote=BernDog]
[quote=Ted King]
If you live in a region where all or most of the electricity is generated in coal fired plants, then there is probably little to no environmental advantage in having an all-electric car.
Except the system would already be in place for when that coal power plant is decommissioned (hopefully) in favor of a better alternative. At worst, we're at least trading gasoline for coal, which is 100% domestic. As for efficiencies and pollution potential, not my area of expertise.
I assume (hope?) that Ted's statement was meant as irony.
Nope, the physics and chemistry are what they are - assuming Scientific American analyzed the situation correctly. (See the posting with links to the Scientific American sites.)
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Ted King wrote:
[quote=Black]
[quote=BernDog]
[quote=Ted King]
If you live in a region where all or most of the electricity is generated in coal fired plants, then there is probably little to no environmental advantage in having an all-electric car.
Except the system would already be in place for when that coal power plant is decommissioned (hopefully) in favor of a better alternative. At worst, we're at least trading gasoline for coal, which is 100% domestic. As for efficiencies and pollution potential, not my area of expertise.
I assume (hope?) that Ted's statement was meant as irony.
Nope, the physics and chemistry are what they are - assuming Scientific American analyzed the situation correctly. (See the posting with links to the Scientific American sites.)
Oops . . . I read "environmental damage" instead of "advantage."
I did stop into an eye doctor yesterday that was recommended, but they were haughty so I left . . .
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Black wrote:
[quote=Filliam H. Muffman]
[quote=DP]
The biggest problem tho is pollution. In many parts of the country you put more pollution in the air by charging an electric car than burning gasoline.
Do you have any statistics or calculations to back that up? The two might be close in a city that gets electricity only from coal and comparing the electric car to a new hybrid.
I personally don't see air pollution as the biggest challenge facing this country at the moment, but there is devastating environmental destruction involved in farming these resources-- not even talking about occasional events like nuclear meltdowns and off-shore drilling disasters.
http://mountainjustice.org/facts/steps.php
for one.
I'm not sure, but I suspect DP was referring to the same basic idea I posted about coal-fired electrical generation. The pollution that is the biggest concern is CO 2 (although things like mercury volatilizing off burning coal is also a problem). Burning coal to generate electricity evidently produces more CO 2 than a comparable car running a gasoline motor.
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I had a chance to see a new company in MN that adds batteries to hybrids like the Prius. It really extends the range of those cars on nearly 100% electricity.
For ~$5k installed, they will make the Prius essentially a plug-in Hybrid. If I were buying a new car today, I'd seriously consider a used Prius plus this battery package.
I live in an area where electricity in the evening has a large fraction from local wind farms, making the evening 'fill up' as earth-friendly as we get here in the midwest.
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When it's cheaper than a regular car (including gas and maintenance)....
Also how am I gonna charge the damn thing??? Not everyone has a garage or a driveway...
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Grace62, I said that I needed to be able to drive to seattle but I never said that I live there. I live in eastern washington. Right now we are experiencing highs of 99 and lows of 58. Obviously I need AC. In the winter it gets very very cold so I would need heat.
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fauch wrote:
When it's cheaper than a regular car (including gas and maintenance)....
Also how am I gonna charge the damn thing??? Not everyone has a garage or a driveway...
once again, the electric car doesn't need to work for everyone to have a very healthy market.
the same is true for a fruit named computer company.
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lazydays wrote:
Grace62, I said that I needed to be able to drive to seattle but I never said that I live there. I live in eastern washington. Right now we are experiencing highs of 99 and lows of 58. Obviously I need AC. In the winter it gets very very cold so I would need heat.
got it! Sorry about that, and thanks for the clarification.
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Ted King wrote:
[quote=AllGold]
Even electricity generated from 100% coal on a large scale is more efficient and less polluting than burning gasoline.
Unfortunately, I don't have anything handy to cite on the subject and I don't expect or even want you to take my word for it any more than I want you to take someone's word for it who says otherwise.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...in-hybrids
Unfortunately, you have to pay for a subscription to see the whole article (I get the magazine every month - that's how I knew about this article). But I did find another link that goes has a bit more:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...in-hybrids
Also, according to Scientific American, it's cheaper to run a car on from plug-in electricity than gasoline:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...per-charge
When you compare battery to gasoline power, electricity wins hands down. A 2007 study by the non-profit Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) calculated that powering a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) would cost the equivalent of roughly 75 cents per gallon of gasoline—a price not seen at the pump for 30 years.
The calculation was made using an average cost of electricity of 8.5 cents per kilowatt hour and the estimated distance the car would travel on one charge, versus a car that gets 25 miles per gallon and is powered by $3 per gallon gasoline. Change any of those variables and the relative costs change. For example, substituting a car that gets 50 miles per gallon doubles the comparative electrical cost (though it still works out much cheaper than gasoline). On the other hand, in some areas where wind or hydropower is wasted at night—just when the PHEV would be charging—the utility might drop the kilowatt hour cost to two to three cents, making the charge much less costly.
So from what I can see of those S.A. pages, if 100% of all cars were 100% electric it looks like the worst case would be 36% worse in Illinois and the surrounding upper midwest region because it's mostly coal. Not as bad but still negative is the mid-Atlantic and most of the southeast. But in other areas of the country (with less coal power) it would be an advantage. In Texas, for example, it would be 25.7% less carbon emissions and most of the west would be even better all-electric.
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