Let the idiots from GOP continue to cry....

[freeradical]

It's too bad that Obama had to waste his trump card on Trump.


:devil:

[beagledave]

Trump Unable To Produce Certificate Proving He's Not A Festering Pile Of Shit

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

[rjmacs]

Dakota wrote:
After years of relegating the birther issue to psychopaths, they see the man himself elevate it to the highest level. Admit it, it was a big mistake.

I'm inclined to agree with you, Dakota. I think that President Obama has legitimated the birther movement by capitulating. Time will tell whether it pays political dividends, but i think you've called it right: he is playing their game, which makes it his game too.

[john dough]

Here is a GREAT example of talking facts to a birther:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es3Jw1IxNMo&

People will believe anything, no matter how foolish.

[PeterB]

rjmacs wrote:
[quote=Dakota]
After years of relegating the birther issue to psychopaths, they see the man himself elevate it to the highest level. Admit it, it was a big mistake.

I'm inclined to agree with you, Dakota. I think that President Obama has legitimated the birther movement by capitulating. Time will tell whether it pays political dividends, but i think you've called it right: he is playing their game, which makes it his game too.
I think you've got it exactly wrong. He didn't capitulate; he gave them what they wanted, just not the way they wanted it. By releasing the certificate, he's essentially just thumbed his nose at the entire tea party movement, by saying that they're kookbiscuits for wasting all of our time with this utter nonsense. In a certain way it was brilliant, because it will further marginalize an already kookbiscuity fringe element (and anyone associated with that element). If he hadn't have released this, there might forever be nagging doubts. By releasing this, anyone who persists is going to be marginalized and labeled a kookbiscuit, e.g., beagledave's link.

[rjmacs]

PeterB wrote:
[quote=rjmacs]
[quote=Dakota]
After years of relegating the birther issue to psychopaths, they see the man himself elevate it to the highest level. Admit it, it was a big mistake.

I'm inclined to agree with you, Dakota. I think that President Obama has legitimated the birther movement by capitulating. Time will tell whether it pays political dividends, but i think you've called it right: he is playing their game, which makes it his game too.
I think you've got it exactly wrong. He didn't capitulate; he gave them what they wanted, just not the way they wanted it. By releasing the certificate, he's essentially just thumbed his nose at the entire tea party movement, by saying that they're kookbiscuits for wasting all of our time with this utter nonsense. In a certain way it was brilliant, because it will further marginalize an already kookbiscuity fringe element (and anyone associated with that element). If he hadn't have released this, there might forever be nagging doubts. By releasing this, anyone who persists is going to be marginalized and labeled a kookbiscuit, e.g., beagledave's link.
How did they want it? I'm not clear about in what way he isn't playing their game? Granted, he thinks that doing so will win over the mild skeptics and further marginalize the die-hards - but that's a political calculation. To me, it doesn't look like thumb-nosing, it looks like high-profile recognition. (Also, i don't think it's accurate to imply that all Tea Party members are birthers, or vice versa.)

[PeterB]

rjmacs wrote:
[quote=PeterB]
[quote=rjmacs]
[quote=Dakota]
After years of relegating the birther issue to psychopaths, they see the man himself elevate it to the highest level. Admit it, it was a big mistake.

I'm inclined to agree with you, Dakota. I think that President Obama has legitimated the birther movement by capitulating. Time will tell whether it pays political dividends, but i think you've called it right: he is playing their game, which makes it his game too.
I think you've got it exactly wrong. He didn't capitulate; he gave them what they wanted, just not the way they wanted it. By releasing the certificate, he's essentially just thumbed his nose at the entire tea party movement, by saying that they're kookbiscuits for wasting all of our time with this utter nonsense. In a certain way it was brilliant, because it will further marginalize an already kookbiscuity fringe element (and anyone associated with that element). If he hadn't have released this, there might forever be nagging doubts. By releasing this, anyone who persists is going to be marginalized and labeled a kookbiscuit, e.g., beagledave's link.
How did they want it? I'm not clear about in what way he isn't playing their game? Granted, he thinks that doing so will win over the mild skeptics and further marginalize the die-hards - but that's a political calculation. To me, it doesn't look like thumb-nosing, it looks like high-profile recognition. (Also, i don't think it's accurate to imply that all Tea Party members are birthers, or vice versa.)
I think it's disingenuous to say that there's no connection between the birthers and the tea partiers ... certainly not all tea partiers are birthers, but some of them share the same basis of hatred.

I don't think they *really* wanted his birth certificate, what they wanted was to de-legitimize his Presidency, any way they could (implying that he's not native-born, not a Christian, other forms of innuendo and rumor, etc.). They didn't get what they wanted. If there was a "game", it was for him to be de-legitimized, and they just lost.

[rjmacs]

PeterB wrote:
[quote=rjmacs]
How did they want it? I'm not clear about in what way he isn't playing their game? Granted, he thinks that doing so will win over the mild skeptics and further marginalize the die-hards - but that's a political calculation. To me, it doesn't look like thumb-nosing, it looks like high-profile recognition. (Also, i don't think it's accurate to imply that all Tea Party members are birthers, or vice versa.)

I think it's disingenuous to say that there's no connection between the birthers and the tea partiers ... certainly not all tea partiers are birthers, but some of them share the same basis of hatred.

I don't think they *really* wanted his birth certificate, what they wanted was to de-legitimize his Presidency, any way they could (implying that he's not native-born, not a Christian, other forms of innuendo and rumor, etc.). They didn't get what they wanted. If there was a "game", it was for him to be de-legitimized, and they just lost.
Well, i certainly agree that they want to de-legitimize his Presidency, and to that end are willing to go after any chink they see in the armor (as you aptly noted). But in politics, a big part of getting your way is being heard; for years, Barack Obama's approach to the birthers was to deny them recognition (to de-legitimize them, actually, by not acknowledging their claims as serious). I thought this was a pretty good strategy, actually, but clearly he decided to change course. I also think it's a little early to declare victory or defeat on this game yet (it's very new news, still). Polls over the coming weeks and months will tell whether it was an effective tactical switch. The ultimate results in matters like this are determined by public opinion, not 'facts.'

[PeterB]

rjmacs wrote:
[quote=PeterB]
[quote=rjmacs]
How did they want it? I'm not clear about in what way he isn't playing their game? Granted, he thinks that doing so will win over the mild skeptics and further marginalize the die-hards - but that's a political calculation. To me, it doesn't look like thumb-nosing, it looks like high-profile recognition. (Also, i don't think it's accurate to imply that all Tea Party members are birthers, or vice versa.)

I think it's disingenuous to say that there's no connection between the birthers and the tea partiers ... certainly not all tea partiers are birthers, but some of them share the same basis of hatred.

I don't think they *really* wanted his birth certificate, what they wanted was to de-legitimize his Presidency, any way they could (implying that he's not native-born, not a Christian, other forms of innuendo and rumor, etc.). They didn't get what they wanted. If there was a "game", it was for him to be de-legitimized, and they just lost.
Well, i certainly agree that they want to de-legitimize his Presidency, and to that end are willing to go after any chink they see in the armor (as you aptly noted). But in politics, a big part of getting your way is being heard; for years, Barack Obama's approach to the birthers was to deny them recognition (to de-legitimize them, actually, by not acknowledging their claims as serious). I thought this was a pretty good strategy, actually, but clearly he decided to change course. I also think it's a little early to declare victory or defeat on this game yet (it's very new news, still). Polls over the coming weeks and months will tell whether it was an effective tactical switch. The ultimate results in matters like this are determined by public opinion, not 'facts.'
Agreed. And for the record, I did not mean to imply that YOU (rjmacs) were being disingenuous, only that there is likely to be some common shared core constituencies between the birthers and the tea partiers. (One major problem the tea partiers have is that no one is really responsible for their movement, which might even have some validity, but is getting undermined by the extremist elements... and since no one is seemingly in charge, no one can refute the extremists.)

As for why he changed course, I think it was a matter that he was trying to show how really crazy/radical these people are.

[Uncle Wig]

john dough wrote:
[quote=billb]
[quote=john dough]
If you ever wonder why no one here takes you seriously, just look at your posts today.

Just how unimportant can he be if he's got your lipstick on the arse of every one of his posts ?
More like a bootprint on his arse. If asking him to prove his points is kissing arse, you have screwed up definitions. His posts are nothing but fiction, not unlike the points from the far right blowhards that he so steadfastly bends over for.

PS: you may want to ask your doctor for weaker meds. The ones you have been taking are giving you the illusion of being witty.
billb makes a very good point. "When you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas."