Pandora IPO suffers mightily today

[M A V I C]

Joey Cupcakes wrote:
[quote=3d]
I refuse to pay money for "Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed" and "Head Shoulders Knees and Toes". The ads are really annoying though. If i have to listen to another commercial for Drop Dead Diva on the Lifetime channel I'm gonna jump out the window.

So the artists who take the time to write and the money to record the songs that keep your toddler entertained are not worthy of compensation?
You really think the people who wrote either of those songs are getting any compensation for them?

[Joey Cupcakes]

M A V I C wrote:
[quote=Joey Cupcakes]
[quote=3d]
I refuse to pay money for "Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed" and "Head Shoulders Knees and Toes". The ads are really annoying though. If i have to listen to another commercial for Drop Dead Diva on the Lifetime channel I'm gonna jump out the window.

So the artists who take the time to write and the money to record the songs that keep your toddler entertained are not worthy of compensation?
You really think the people who wrote either of those songs are getting any compensation for them?
Well my band has been paid from Pandora play (literally pennies, to be sure), but that's not really my point.

I take exception with 3d's apparent attitude that the songs he uses to entertain his child are somehow beneath consideration that somebody has put time and effort into them. I may be reading too much into his statement (and if so 3d I apologize) but that's what I get from the way he presents the argument.

As a working musician and recording engineer, I take exception to the idea that "music should be free, man!" 3d seems to imply that children's music is somehow worth even less.

[M A V I C]

Joey Cupcakes wrote: As a working musician and recording engineer, I take exception to the idea that "music should be free, man!" 3d seems to imply that children's music is somehow worth even less.

So you're saying "Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed" and "Head Shoulders Knees and Toes" are worth just as much as your band's music?

[Joey Cupcakes]

M A V I C wrote:
[quote=Joey Cupcakes]As a working musician and recording engineer, I take exception to the idea that "music should be free, man!" 3d seems to imply that children's music is somehow worth even less.

So you're saying "Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed" and "Head Shoulders Knees and Toes" are worth just as much as your band's music?
Why not? No, it's not like "every song is worth exactly $.99," but if you get value out of the music you listen to, would it be so awful to acknowledge the creators of it so they can continue to make new music?

[M A V I C]

Joey Cupcakes wrote:
[quote=M A V I C]
[quote=Joey Cupcakes]As a working musician and recording engineer, I take exception to the idea that "music should be free, man!" 3d seems to imply that children's music is somehow worth even less.

So you're saying "Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed" and "Head Shoulders Knees and Toes" are worth just as much as your band's music?
Why not? No, it's not like "every song is worth exactly $.99," but if you get value out of the music you listen to, would it be so awful to acknowledge the creators of it so they can continue to make new music?
I really don't think the creators of those songs are getting any money from Pandora. They've probably long been dead. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands or tens of thousands of musicians who've recorded those songs. I think that drives the "value" of a specific recording way down, and musicians shouldn't expect otherwise. It's basic supply and demand.

It's sort of like fonts. There's tons of crappy fonts out there, and they're free. There's good fonts too, and they can cost hundreds of dollars. It boils down to what the purchaser thinks they're worth. Many of the free fonts are worth zero because there's always other free fonts to choose from.

[Joey Cupcakes]

M A V I C wrote:
[quote=Joey Cupcakes]
[quote=M A V I C]
[quote=Joey Cupcakes]As a working musician and recording engineer, I take exception to the idea that "music should be free, man!" 3d seems to imply that children's music is somehow worth even less.

So you're saying "Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed" and "Head Shoulders Knees and Toes" are worth just as much as your band's music?
Why not? No, it's not like "every song is worth exactly $.99," but if you get value out of the music you listen to, would it be so awful to acknowledge the creators of it so they can continue to make new music?
I really don't think the creators of those songs are getting any money from Pandora. They've probably long been dead. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands or tens of thousands of musicians who've recorded those songs. I think that drives the "value" of a specific recording way down, and musicians shouldn't expect otherwise. It's basic supply and demand.
An argument can be made about a statute of limitations of copyright of art, especially for songs that have fallen into the realm of nursery rhymes- let's put them under the umbrella of folk music- but again, not my point. Somebody recorded it. Somebody performed it.

Didn't really mean to make that big deal out of it, but I get a bit bent out of shape when it's implied that music that one enjoys or finds useful or valuable in some way is demeaned in order to justify not compensating it's creator.

[DRR]

Joey-

I don't know if you're misreading the statement (or if I am) but I took is as, those songs are not worth enough for 3d to pay money for, however 3d will play them free through Pandora, it's just that the ads are an annoyance. 3d means those particular songs - I'm sure he/she has paid money for music before.

I think you are misinterpreting from your own bias as an artist and an engineer when you infer that 3d meant "music should be free, man." I get no implication that children's music should be worth less. Just that those particular songs, and possibly that genre, is not something that individual is going to lay out money for.

[Joey Cupcakes]

DRR wrote:
Joey-

I don't know if you're misreading the statement (or if I am) but I took is as, those songs are not worth enough for 3d to pay money for, however 3d will play them free through Pandora, it's just that the ads are an annoyance. 3d means those particular songs - I'm sure he/she has paid money for music before.

I think you are misinterpreting from your own bias as an artist and an engineer when you infer that 3d meant "music should be free, man." I get no implication that children's music should be worth less. Just that those particular songs, and possibly that genre, is not something that individual is going to lay out money for.

I expect you're right- but I would have to argue that the annoying advertisements- which are really sort of sparse on Pandora for what you're getting- are the cost of listening for free.

[3d]

DDR, thanks for coming to my defense.
Joey Cupcakes, get your panties out of a bunch. I would not pay cash money for children's songs, but i will listen to it on a commercial radio channel like Pandora. Yes, the commercials are repetitive and annoying but Pandora gets money from the commercials and pays licensing fees with the money. I said nothing about copying a library CD or downloading it for free somewhere. So what's your problem with what I said?

BTW, here's my collection of 500+ CDs.
http://forums.macresource.com/read.php?1...msg-876195

You're jibber jabbering up the wrong tree.

[Joey Cupcakes]

3d wrote:
DDR, thanks for coming to my defense.
Joey Cupcakes, get your panties out of a bunch. I would not pay cash money for children's songs, but i will listen to it on a commercial radio channel like Pandora. Yes, the commercials are repetitive and annoying but Pandora gets money from the commercials and pays licensing fees with the money. I said nothing about copying a library CD or downloading it for free somewhere. So what's your problem with what I said?

BTW, here's my collection of 500+ CDs.
http://forums.macresource.com/read.php?1...msg-876195

You're jibber jabbering up the wrong tree.

Apologies. I've pulled back from my initial statement, twice. And I never implied that you were a music thief of any kind. My problem was what I saw as a condescending attitude towards makers of children's music. Yes, it's very simple stuff but if that's what you want to play for your kids, it has value that is not qualitatively different from music you play for your own pleasure.