Used car from dealership. Tips?

[deckeda]

bik wrote:
...
Ask for new tires if they are close to low.
Ask if you can see a maintenance report from when they brought the car in and checked it. ...

I understand using the "used-up" nature of a previously-owned car as a potential bargaining chip but in my experience that only works with a private seller, who may feel some guilt about The Thing that needs fixing he might not have divulged.

I've asked dealers about maintenance papers and they never have them. These are bought wholesale, and the "papers" are long gone before the dealer gets the car. And honestly, seeing what's been fixed on it represents a liability if it breaks. And they certainly don't want you contacting the previous owner for any reason.

Used cars typically have new (albeit cheap) new tires in order to avoid any question about this obvious target.

[davester]

I'm wondering why you'd buy from a dealership. You'll pay the most and also have to deal with guys who are experienced professionals at extracting money from you. You also will not be able to get any information on the car's history. The only thing you might get (at additional cost) will be a warranty, though if the car is relatively new is this important?

Better to go the private (craigslist) market and have a pre-purchase inspection by a trained mechanic done.

[Ombligo]

If your going through a dealership, particularly dedicated used car lots, check for complaints and ratings of the dealership. The bad ones will have racked up numerous complaints. Even the good ones will have complaints but no where near the number and the descriptions will be minor issues.

[bik]

davester wrote:
I'm wondering why you'd buy from a dealership. You'll pay the most and also have to deal with guys who are experienced professionals at extracting money from you. You also will not be able to get any information on the car's history. The only thing you might get (at additional cost) will be a warranty, though if the car is relatively new is this important?

Better to go the private (craigslist) market and have a pre-purchase inspection by a trained mechanic done.

For one reason, it would be a much bigger hassle to get financing for a private sale.

[bik]

deckeda wrote:
[quote=bik]
...
Ask for new tires if they are close to low.
Ask if you can see a maintenance report from when they brought the car in and checked it. ...

I understand using the "used-up" nature of a previously-owned car as a potential bargaining chip but in my experience that only works with a private seller, who may feel some guilt about The Thing that needs fixing he might not have divulged.
It's not about a bargaining chip. It's about getting things taken care of at a lower cost. Many times a dealer will have done an inspection and will know things, but won't put any of their money into a car until it's sold. If you become aware of something that bothers you, make sure they know you want it fixed -- it's cheaper for them to do it than for you to have to pay for it later.

On a separate but related note, you can ask specifically for something to be taken care of if it turns out to be a problem down the road. Example: I bought a used care and the AC was not blowing cold. I made a big deal about it and made them put in writing that the AC would work.

Well, they charged the AC, but a month later it was blowing warm again. Because I had asked for it to be taken care of, they replaced the AC condenser at their cost. Not sure they would have covered that on a used car with no warranty if I had not made an issue of it.

deckeda wrote:
I've asked dealers about maintenance papers and they never have them. These are bought wholesale, and the "papers" are long gone before the dealer gets the car. And honestly, seeing what's been fixed on it represents a liability if it breaks. And they certainly don't want you contacting the previous owner for any reason.

Used cars typically have new (albeit cheap) new tires in order to avoid any question about this obvious target.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was not talking about previous owners records.
I meant the dealer's own inspection report. Again, many dealers will have done an inspection when the car came to them. That would be when they put on those cheap tires you mention. Well, they might also be aware of other things.

Maybe the technician made a note that the front brakes are 70% worn, or some other similar issue.

[davester]

bik wrote:
[quote=davester]
I'm wondering why you'd buy from a dealership. ...

For one reason, it would be a much bigger hassle to get financing for a private sale.
Only if he has a bad credit rating, in which case he probably shouldn't be financing a sale. It sounds like smacks has most of the cash available for the sale anyway, so he'd only be financing a very small amount (made even smaller if getting a better price by avoiding the dealerships) Going through a dealership to get financing on a trivial amount is a huge price for a tiny benefit.

[tenders]

I've bought two Siennas from Toyota dealers over the past several years and ended up being very happy with the process. However, the dealers will nickel and dime you at every twist and turn and have more stamina and experience in wearing you down. Don't let them. My advice is:

* salesmen get serious about meeting their quotas or beating the dealership across town or whatever towards the end of the month. This weekend, and early this week, is *the best* time to strike a deal you might not be able to make on May 1.

* do not walk into the dealership HAVING to buy a vehicle. Show an interest level of 5 out of 10, and be prepared to walk out. Last time, I actually did walk out, had not expected to close a deal that day, didn't really want to close a deal that day. Sensing perhaps that when I got serious I might get serious someplace else, the salesman chased me into the parking lot almost matching my price but with an offer I couldn't refuse: 1% financing (this was last October). I'm a great credit risk but I cannot turn down someone stupid enough to loan money for 48 months at 1%. I have no idea how anyone made money on that loan.

* have financing set up before you walk in. I was pre-approved by my bank, USAA, and I think I had a blank bank check in my pocket. Here's the thing: salespeople get an up-front commission on the establishment of financing, NOT a trail over the life of the loan as the bank collects interest. If you can get a good price from them using their financing, even if it isn't under great terms, there's nothing stopping you from refinancing a week later using your bank. I'm not aware of any auto loans that charge a pre-payment penalty.

* keep in mind that if you finance a vehicle with a bank, you have to buy collision insurance. For a car worth $15k you're probably doing that anyway, but there comes a point as you own the car where the cost of the insurance that you only own because of the loan makes the terms of the loan very unattractive. Then it's time to pay off the loan and cancel the collision insurance.

* a lot of money is won for the dealer in the paperwork room with a smooth-talking guy who is going to layer on a bunch of fees in excess of what you just agreed to. Once you agree on a price, JUST SAY NO to the $299 processing charge, $99 cleaning fee, $29 computer time fee, etc. It is reasonable to pay them a little for the state registration and inspection hassle. I stood up at this and said, "I'm sorry, we agreed on X and now you're making my cost X+400, call me back if the price is ever X again as we agreed" and lo and behold the charges disappeared.

* My Siennas had loads of doodads on them. My wife insisted that we buy the Toyota Platinum extended warranty on the first Sienna. I thought this was a total waste of money...but it was actually the best money I ever spent on a car. The price for the warranty is the same for the stripped-down version or for the jacked-up version. Despite Toyota's reputation, on our first van, heated seats, electric doors, some kind of axle bearing, something else broke as we drove that car up to 125k miles - all fixed with $0 deductible. I tripled my money on this extended warranty, a fact my wife will never let me forget. We bought the warranty this time too.

* Many Toyotas come with some kind of "Toyota Certified Used Car" warranty which is good for lots of stuff - but not the same as the Toyota Platinum. The "Toyota Certified" price includes the "Toyota Certified" warranty. If you buy the "Toyota Platinum" warranty, you should knock some of the price off because the cost of the "Certified" warranty is redundant.

[mattkime]

you should really listen to this - http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-ar...3/129-cars

We spend a month at a Jeep dealership on Long Island as they try to make their monthly sales goal: 129 cars. If they make it, they'll get a huge bonus from the manufacturer, possibly as high as $85,000 — enough to put them in the black for the month. If they don't make it, it'll be the second month in a row. So they pull out all the stops.

(tip: sometimes you can buy a car for less than cost if it helps a dealership meet a quota - probably doesn't apply to used cars though)

[bik]

davester wrote:
[quote=bik]
[quote=davester]
I'm wondering why you'd buy from a dealership. ...

For one reason, it would be a much bigger hassle to get financing for a private sale.
Only if he has a bad credit rating, in which case he probably shouldn't be financing a sale. It sounds like smacks has most of the cash available for the sale anyway, so he'd only be financing a very small amount (made even smaller if getting a better price by avoiding the dealerships) Going through a dealership to get financing on a trivial amount is a huge price for a tiny benefit.
I didn't say anything about going through a dealership to get financing. As many suggested, including myself, it's better to have the financing in hand before going in. But, many banks and credit unions won't finance an auto loan unless it is with a dealer.

Some banks may finance a private sale, but he'd have to spend more time searching to find them. He may be able to finance with a personal loan (as opposed to an auto loan) or just put it on a credit card, but the interest rate will most likely be higher than if he got an actual auto loan for the $5k he needs.

[space-time]

all this is great advice for buying a USED car from a dealer. What would change if one were to buy a NEW car? would most advice here still apply?