Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs

[Bill in NC]

sekker wrote:
GM is definitely living the 'batteries are EASY' consequence.

Lithium keeps dropping in price, which will help overall.

We are still in the awkward, teenage years. Not that many charging stations, not all cars are using the same connector, and some of the software totally sucks (I'm looking at you, GM).

Some are having trouble making safe batteries (LG for GM and the older Bolt).

Kia seems to be doing ok tho.

https://insideevs.com/news/707034/kia-us...wn%208%25)

yep, and much better battery tech (solid state) will be available around the 2030 timeline.

[ztirffritz]

Everyone thinks of public charging as DC fast charging. That’s just for travel. We do need more L2 and even L1 charging. All new construction should include L1 or L2 suitable outlets in parking areas. Parking meters should be converted to L1 outlets. If people have cars, they have to be parked somewhere. They should all be charging while parked. It doesn’t need to be high power charging. 8A 120v is plenty if the car is parked for 8+ hours/day. Parking garages should just have an outlet for each parking space. It’s part of the cost of parking.

[Lux Interior]

I bet your dishwasher doesn't use water, either.

[Rolando]

C(-)ris wrote:
The only time you should need public charging stations is when you are traveling. With Tesla's network becoming open as soon as that transition is complete travel charging will be a non-issue for most people.

If you don't live in a place where you can plug in every night at home or plug in when you are at work to cover your daily driving then an EV is not for you. You will pay more for an EV than a gas if you use public charging most of the time.

I would have thought the split would be the other way. This is a huge market. Homeowners tend to have better credit and more disposable income.


https://www.rubyhome.com/blog/homeowners...ers-stats/

[macphanatic]

ztirffritz wrote:
Everyone thinks of public charging as DC fast charging. That’s just for travel. We do need more L2 and even L1 charging. All new construction should include L1 or L2 suitable outlets in parking areas. Parking meters should be converted to L1 outlets. If people have cars, they have to be parked somewhere. They should all be charging while parked. It doesn’t need to be high power charging. 8A 120v is plenty if the car is parked for 8+ hours/day. Parking garages should just have an outlet for each parking space. It’s part of the cost of parking.

L2 and L1 charging requires 240 volt. L2 needs at least 16 Amps. It would require a significant electrical system to provide L2 charging at every parking meter. The electrical grids in major cities in the NE would need a lot of work to support this.

Rolando wrote:
[quote=C(-)ris]
The only time you should need public charging stations is when you are traveling. With Tesla's network becoming open as soon as that transition is complete travel charging will be a non-issue for most people.

If you don't live in a place where you can plug in every night at home or plug in when you are at work to cover your daily driving then an EV is not for you. You will pay more for an EV than a gas if you use public charging most of the time.

I would have thought the split would be the other way. This is a huge market. Homeowners tend to have better credit and more disposable income.


https://www.rubyhome.com/blog/homeowners...ers-stats/
Or are just making ends meet. For newer homes, charger installation may not be a big issue. For others though, it will require a new service drop, meter box and panel. If gas appliances are sunsetted, it's going to be a big challenge for some of these homeowners.

[mrbigstuff]

macphanatic wrote:
[quote=ztirffritz]
Everyone thinks of public charging as DC fast charging. That’s just for travel. We do need more L2 and even L1 charging. All new construction should include L1 or L2 suitable outlets in parking areas. Parking meters should be converted to L1 outlets. If people have cars, they have to be parked somewhere. They should all be charging while parked. It doesn’t need to be high power charging. 8A 120v is plenty if the car is parked for 8+ hours/day. Parking garages should just have an outlet for each parking space. It’s part of the cost of parking.

L2 and L1 charging requires 240 volt. L2 needs at least 16 Amps. It would require a significant electrical system to provide L2 charging at every parking meter. The electrical grids in major cities in the NE would need a lot of work to support this.
while I agree that would be great (on street charging), I just don't see it happening in meaningful numbers for a very long time. Also, I would have to guess that standardization would have to occur for this to get past the basic public hurdles necessary for approval.

my prediction is that private lots will be providing this as incentives to get people to patronize their businesses - i.e., places where a prolonged stay would lead to significant charging time, like a restaurant, etc. Also, new public and private garages are more likely to occur.

[gadje]

L1 is 120V, at least my PHEV with 120V is level 1 I think.

[DeusxMac]

IMHO, with all the auto makers announcing they're adopting NACS, until THEY start installing NACS charging stations THEMSELVES, Tesla's charging stations will become overcrowded and less reliably convenient.

[DinerDave]

ztirffritz wrote:
Everyone thinks of public charging as DC fast charging. That’s just for travel. We do need more L2 and even L1 charging. All new construction should include L1 or L2 suitable outlets in parking areas. Parking meters should be converted to L1 outlets. If people have cars, they have to be parked somewhere. They should all be charging while parked. It doesn’t need to be high power charging. 8A 120v is plenty if the car is parked for 8+ hours/day. Parking garages should just have an outlet for each parking space. It’s part of the cost of parking.

I like your thinking.

Dave

[DinerDave]

mrbigstuff wrote:

L2 and L1 charging requires 240 volt.

my prediction is that private lots will be providing this as incentives to get people to patronize their businesses - i.e., places where a prolonged stay would lead to significant charging time, like a restaurant, etc. Also, new public and private garages are more likely to occur.

Yes, parking lots, restaurants and supermarkets.
My town has two chain supermarkets, Stop and Shop has Volta L2 chargers with a two hour time limit, and Big Y has a L2 through the Charge Point, setup so you get 1 hour free, then $3 per hour after that. More than enough time for me in a supermarket. They also have a fast charger there. The major intersection of Rt 91 and Rt 2 has three chain restaurants huddled around the traffic circle. Pre pandemic I spoke with management of all 3, stated that since you have highway signs stating your location off the exit, install L2 chargers in your lot and put that on your sign. I stated that anyone with a plug in or an EV would choice you over the others if they could top off while eating, they all acted like I had 2 heads. Granted, this was 5 years ago, maybe they have a clue now?

Dave