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Obama the great warrior?
#41
There is a big difference between choosing not to serve in that particular manner, military service, and avoiding service in. And many choose to serve in other ways than military service. I'll take an honest "did not serve" over a dishonest "I served". In W's case, he may have avoided dishonorable discharge, but I see only subterfuge in any claim of him serving honorably.

In addition, Obama did not "avoid military service", as he was under no obligation to serve in the military. The draft was over long before. He also graduated at a time when there was a much lower demand for persons to enter the military. But those who like military service to be a necessary right of passage are the ones who tend to keep bringing that up. Many presidents have served who had little or none.

As for "Perhaps it's the lack of Military Draft that has hastened the erosion of our society", that might be true. But possibly not in the way you are thinking. I am reminded of an opinion piece I read some 25-30 years ago. In it the writer was wondering if perhaps the all-volunteer professional military was not good for our society. One reason was that it could be all too easy to think that because they volunteered, whatever they were sent to do was okay because it was their job. Another reason he was not completely sold on the idea was social. With the draft all kinds of people from all walks of life ended up serving with each other, from those who would have volunteered anyways to ones who would not have. That exposure to all kinds, he thought was good for society as a whole and the military itself as well. With all-volunteer, he was wondering where things would trend if only those who wanted to be there and those who took up military service for personal economic reasons served in the military. Years later, and I can see some signs that those concerns were right to be raised. Wish I remembered who wrote it, I wonder what he would say now.
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#42
Do you honestly think George W. Bush would have enlisted his lazy coke-snorting ass in the military if there hadn't been a draft?
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#43
JoeH wrote:
There is a big difference between choosing not to serve in that particular manner, military service, and avoiding service in. And many choose to serve in other ways than military service. I'll take an honest "did not serve" over a dishonest "I served". In W's case, he may have avoided dishonorable discharge, but I see only subterfuge in any claim of him serving honorably.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, the discussion is about which of the two presidents served in the military. That is clear. The question on the quality of service is a separate issue.

JoeH wrote:
In addition, Obama did not "avoid military service", as he was under no obligation to serve in the military. The draft was over long before. He also graduated at a time when there was a much lower demand for persons to enter the military. But those who like military service to be a necessary right of passage are the ones who tend to keep bringing that up. Many presidents have served who had little or none.

I'm presuming that when you state: "Many presidents have served who had little or none" that you mean presidents have served {as president} who had little or none {military service}.

Again, I don't disagree with you. A number of presidents have held the office without military service. There is nothing, in and of itself, wrong with that.

JoeH wrote: As for "Perhaps it's the lack of Military Draft that has hastened the erosion of our society", that might be true. But possibly not in the way you are thinking. I am reminded of an opinion piece I read some 25-30 years ago. In it the writer was wondering if perhaps the all-volunteer professional military was not good for our society. One reason was that it could be all too easy to think that because they volunteered, whatever they were sent to do was okay because it was their job. Another reason he was not completely sold on the idea was social. With the draft all kinds of people from all walks of life ended up serving with each other, from those who would have volunteered anyways to ones who would not have. That exposure to all kinds, he thought was good for society as a whole and the military itself as well. With all-volunteer, he was wondering where things would trend if only those who wanted to be there and those who took up military service for personal economic reasons served in the military. Years later, and I can see some signs that those concerns were right to be raised. Wish I remembered who wrote it, I wonder what he would say now.

I agree with a lot of those sentiments. Certainly today's military is populated by less fortunate and less educated soldiers whose service is dictated more by socio-economic constraints than perhaps a true desire to serve our nation. Hand in hand with this is the probability that higher educated individuals choose to avoid military service.

While I certainly don't have statistics, I would surmise that the percentage of Harvard (and similar) graduates entering military service remains low.
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#44
Dennis S wrote:
Do you honestly think George W. Bush would have enlisted his lazy coke-snorting ass in the military if there hadn't been a draft?


While you might entertain yourself by allowing fantasies of hate occupy your time, I'm not interested in hypothesizing on irrelevant theory. Fact remains that GW Bush served in the military and BH Obama did not.
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#45
Mac-A-Matic wrote:
Perhaps you're allowing your hatred of Bush/republicans/conservatives to cloud your judgement?

Or, more likely, the person I quoted directly brought up Bush.

Mac-A-Matic wrote:
However, I think there would be quite a number of servicemen and veterans who would disagree with your statement.

I am a veteran and I don't think just (you may have missed that word in my other post) my service would make me more qualified for political office. But thanks for taking my quote out of context and trying to make it look like I look down on military service. Way to be a jerk.

Fact remains that GW Bush served in the military and BH Obama did not.

Fact remains that this means nothing.
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#46
Lux Interior wrote:
I am a veteran and I don't think just (you may have missed that word in my other post) my service would make me more qualified for political office. But thanks for taking my quote out of context and trying to make it look like I look down on military service. Way to be a jerk.

Please. Don't make yourself out to be so laughable by calling me a "jerk" for your insistence that military service means nothing just because you're so "in love" with Barack Obama and harbor hatred for George W. Bush.


Lux Interior wrote:
Fact remains that GW Bush served in the military and BH Obama did not.

Fact remains that this means nothing.


As a military veteran yourself, I find it difficult to believe that military service means nothing. Yet you excuse your position by pretending that military service offers nothing to the experience of a president in the case of Barack Obama.
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#47
Mac-A-Matic wrote:
As a military veteran yourself, I find it difficult to believe that military service means nothing.

My military service means quite a bit to me, personally. And way to keep being a jerk.
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#48
Lux Interior wrote:

And way to keep being a jerk.


A highlight of your inability to maintain a conversation without resorting to name calling and insults.
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#49
What else can he do if you keep saying stupid things like: "Fact remains that GW Bush served in the military and BH Obama did not."?

How about these facts:

"Fact remains that GW Bush is a dumbass and BH Obama is not."

"Fact remains that GW Bush is an alcoholic and BH Obama is not."

"Fact remains that GW Bush went AWOL in the military and BH Obama did not."

"Fact remains that GW Bush's Daddy got him in the military to avoid the draftand BH Obama's did not."

"Fact remains that GW Bush was a mediocre student and BH Obama was an excellent student."

I think you get my drift.
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#50
Mac-A-Matic does his positions little good with this sort of attack.
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