Red Flag will do NOTHING-Ban Assault Weapons

[SteveG]

There are over 300 million guns flooding America.
That's the problem.
Large magazines and semi-automatic rifles are designed for killing people...no other purpose.
That's the problem.

That's why people are being killed. 'Red Flag' laws are lame excuses. Similarly, background checks won't stop hundreds of thousands of people-killing machines being readily available. When is the American public going to stop kidding themselves?

The Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, commonly called the federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB and AWB 1994), was enacted in September 1994. The ban, including a ban on high-capacity magazines, became defunct (expired) in September 2004 per a 10-year sunset provision.
George W Bush and the Republican majority Congress refused to renew it.
So don't tell us it can't be done. It's already been done It's time to do it again!.



Maybe we should legalize hand grenades (for sports hunting, of course). Then we will see real politeness and freedom at work or at a schoolroom or shopping center near you.

[deckeda]

Steve G. wrote:
... Maybe we should legalize hand grenades (for sports hunting, of course). Then we will see real politeness and freedom at work or at a schoolroom or shopping center near you.

Their conservative argument for an armed society being a polite (safe) one vaporizes once you realize these killers are willing to either die or be caught in order to spray their victims. It’s not actually about being intimidated by some church goer with a holster on his belt and the Lord on his side.

More to the point, why even rely on that being successful when it’s not necessary?

[RgrF]

The death penalty is almost always a conservative knee jerk response to terrorist attacks.

Listening to an Arizona State professor on NPR yesterday. They started a study of these mass (4 or more) killing to see what degree exposure might create contagion creating clusters of attacks.

One of their findings was that at least 80% of shooters were themselves suicidal.

Using the threat of the death penalty in an attempt to dissuade a suicide from acting is futile and totally meaningless. Its as helpful as taking off shoes before boarding a plane. Makes it seem like they're doing something when they're not.

[testcase]

"Large magazines and semi-automatic rifles are designed for killing people...no other purpose."


Ummmm, NO. Obviously you are mis-informed or, choose to ignore the simple fact that MILLIONS of law abiding citizens REGULARLY use these items for a variety of LAWFUL purposes.


I ask people WHY they want guns to be banned and confiscated. Invariably, they'll claim they want to "save lives". When I then ask if they really want to "save lives" WHY do they choose something that doesn't even make the Top 10 causes of death?(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ca...th_by_rate ).


No doubt a knee jerk reaction dovetails with their own personal agenda.


After 30+ YEARS in Law Enforcement, I know ABSOLUTELY that, if the Second Amendment was abolished or severely gutted, the TOOLS criminals and wackadoodles choose to replace guns, would be WORSE than the TOOLS they currently use (and ultimately, that's all a gun is; a TOOL). The SIMPLE answer is that we NEED and MUST get back to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Yes, regardless of how or where they were raised, THEY must be held accountable for THEIR actions. That has NOT been the case for DECADES now (that's right; NO more Twinkee defense). I would be surprised that, at some time in the past (perhaps even now) you were in possession of gasoline and some styrofoam SIMUTANEOUSLY. If that's correct, YOU were a POTENTIAL terrorist Steve G.


Where can the police pick you up?

[SteveG]

Nope, no Styrofoam and gas. This 'live an upright life' stuff is very desirable, I certainly have always tried to live that way. And there will always be crooks and fools' passions. But having 300 million fewer guns out there would certainly help.

[deckeda]

Well testcase, any straw man attempting to assume law enforcement would "have to" give up weapons isn't gonna have traction, because ain't nobody asking for that. You may unclench.

Thanks for lumping things we can more easily control related to intent (gun usage) with things we cannot easily control and not based on intent (disease.) If there's a stranger apples and oranges comparison, I'm not aware of it.

Meanwhile, life is not actually a zero sum game. We can continue to fight cancer and gun deaths. They don't actually conflict in terms of goals unless you know something I don't. Perhaps diarrhea research has stifled people into wanting to kill with guns. You'll have to let me know about that logic.

Holding people accountable is something we voters intend to do. As for the killers, they don't really care. Pretty much every killer profile showed what might be warning signs in retrospect only. This isn't Minority Report.

30 years in law enforcement, and the whole time you've been thinking it's all been preventable? Why not go into preaching instead. At least that way you'd have direct access to souls you could shape, especially if that's "the answer." So, which is it? Prevention or direct action?

All we wanna do is remove their access to the tools. It's a direct answer to an obvious problem. And that's the same goal as law enforcement, last time I checked. Ask around.

My apologies for not capitalizing some words for effect. Hopefully they were still read.

[Blankity Blank]

And now come the reports that the Dayton shooter apparently had more red flags coming out of him than a peacock has feathers. In one instance, over 300 students skipped school for a day out of fear he might perpetrate an attack.

“The former classmates told The Associated Press that Betts was suspended during their junior year at suburban Bellbrook High School after a hit list was found scrawled in a school bathroom. That followed an earlier suspension after Betts came to school with a list of female students he wanted to sexually assault, according to two of the classmates, a man and a woman who are both now 24 and spoke on condition of anonymity out of concern they might face harassment.”

[deckeda]

Right. I suppose anyone there should have just taken him aside and had a little chat with him to straighten him right up.

Except, he WAS questioned and played dumb, or innocent, or otherwise convinced everyone he was OK and that there was no credible threat.

So yeah, let’s hear MORE about how all we need to do to prevent this is to raise them right, instill proper morals in them, and get back to family values again.

[Lemon Drop]

"Red Flag laws" aka Extreme (or Emergency) Protection Orders are in effect in 17 states and they are considered a good tool for reducing suicide and domestic violence. It's impossible to measure how many "mass shootings" they prevent.

Also - gun responsibility advocates do not like the term "red flag" because it mischaracterizes how these laws work and also stigmatizes people with mental illness. Emergency protection order is better.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/us/re...-laws.html

This is one of a suite of gun responsibility laws that in concert would reduce the rate of gun violence in our country. The areas they cover are
Background checks, owner responsibility, hardware and ammo (inc. assault weapon bans), who can have a gun (red flag laws), child and consumer safety, managing guns used in crimes, managing how guns are sold, liability of the gun manufacturers, and carrying/displaying guns in public.

It's a lot of things, not just one thing. Don't get obsessed with one thing to solve this. Focus on the big picture. Mass shootings done with assault rifles account for only a very small percentage of gun deaths in the US. We need to work to prevent ALL of these deaths.

The mom of the El Paso shooter called the Allen police department a short time before he killed 22 people to say she was worried that he had an "AK" type weapon and she thought he was too young and immature to have this. They ignored her.

[mattkime]

testcase wrote: After 30+ YEARS in Law Enforcement, I know ABSOLUTELY that, if the Second Amendment was abolished or severely gutted, the TOOLS criminals and wackadoodles choose to replace guns, would be WORSE than the TOOLS they currently use (and ultimately, that's all a gun is; a TOOL). The SIMPLE answer is that we NEED and MUST get back to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

not sure if this is serious or a joke.