New scam (?) I haven’t seen before

[pdq]

Apologies if I mentioned this in another thread, but I recently was exposed to what I think was a scam I haven’t heard of before.

Daughter wants an iPad for Xmas, so I went on Google shopping to see if there were any odd deals, and came across one that was suspiciously low priced. The website took PayPal, which is generally pretty good in customer protection, so I bit.

Soon enough, PayPal sends me an email with a UPS tracking number! Score! I Except a couple days later, the UPS tracking info says delivered today, and I didn’t get it. So I call UPS, and they take my name and address, and say “that’s not the ship-to address”. Ooo-kay, what is the ship-to address? “Can’t tell you”.

>: \

So I file a complaint with PayPal, and a day later they email back that they’re siding with the seller since they provided “proof of delivery “. (Maybe, but not to me!)

Anyway, I call PayPal and explain the whole situation, and they look at the ship-to address, which they have, apparently, and it’s some rando address 10 miles away in this large metro area. So they reverse their decision, and give me a full refund. No iPad, but I’m not out hundreds of dollars.

I dunno, but I’d guess this is a scam where the “vendor” sends a (prolly empty) box via UPS to himself or a buddy and offers the tracking as “proof of delivery”. If he’s lucky, the mark (me) blames it on porch pirates. Seems like they’d catch this guy pretty easily, but in this crazy season, there may not be time.

[Zoidberg]

A variation of this happens on eBay; I had them (eBay) cancel a couple of sales b'c of it.

[Gareth]

Yup, this is a surprisingly easy scam to implement. Just ship an empty box to a random address in the same zip code. Ship it to a business if the seller wants a signature.

Happened to me on eBay once. eBay sided with the seller. I had to appeal and then fill out federal fraud forms in order to get eBay to refund the purchase (and they made it seem like they were making an exception because of my good customer status).

eBay/PayPal really need to figure out a better way to verify proof of delivery, but that probably won't happen without shipping carrier support. Since as you experienced (and I did too), UPS/FedEx won't release the actual shipping address.

[RAMd®d]

I guess it's to limit the possibility of interception, but often when I get a tracking number (not from eBay) I don't get a shipping address.

There's one on the invoice at the time of purchase, which I save as a pdf. Doesn't that suffice as proof that proof of delivery to another address defaults that sale?

[Gareth]

RAMd®d wrote:
There's one on the invoice at the time of purchase, which I save as a pdf. Doesn't that suffice as proof that proof of delivery to another address defaults that sale?

The problem is that when you track a tracking number from USPS/UPS/FedEx, the tracking result will, at most, tell you the zip code that the package was delivered to. As long as that zip code matches the zip code of the invoice delivery address, eBay/PayPal will consider the package delivered. There is no way to verify that the address the package was shipped to actually matches the invoice delivery address.

[jdc]

If its too good to be true... prob is.

IMHO -- with BRAND new 10.2 iPads for $250 everywhere... theres really no reason to get anything else to save a few bucks.

It should last for many many years to come -- saving $50 for a 3 year old model hardly seems worth it.

[Zoidberg]

jdc wrote:
If its too good to be true... prob is.

IMHO -- with BRAND new 10.2 iPads for $250 everywhere... theres really no reason to get anything else to save a few bucks.

It should last for many many years to come -- saving $50 for a 3 year old model hardly seems worth it.

Agreed.

[pdq]

Gareth wrote:
Yup, this is a surprisingly easy scam to implement. Just ship an empty box to a random address in the same zip code.

In this case, it apparently wasn't the same zip code (the tracking I got gave only the most bare bones destination) - heck, it wasn't even the same (semi-major) city.

Gareth wrote: eBay/PayPal really need to figure out a better way to verify proof of delivery, but that probably won't happen without shipping carrier support.

Whatever happened to the picture-of-the-package-on-the-front-step (or wherever). Seems like that would only take a second.

[Ombligo]

Gareth wrote:
[quote=RAMd®d]
There's one on the invoice at the time of purchase, which I save as a pdf. Doesn't that suffice as proof that proof of delivery to another address defaults that sale?

The problem is that when you track a tracking number from USPS/UPS/FedEx, the tracking result will, at most, tell you the zip code that the package was delivered to. As long as that zip code matches the zip code of the invoice delivery address, eBay/PayPal will consider the package delivered. There is no way to verify that the address the package was shipped to actually matches the invoice delivery address.
Every tracking number I get for UPS (and I think USPS) shows it coming to my address - not just a zip. With UPS I can often watch it moving about on the truck in semi-realtime (usually off by 2-5 minutes). The only issue is if it gets accidentally delivered to the wrong address, such as one street over or next door, it will show as delivered to me.

[Filliam H. Muffman]

This is why I never buy from a retailer without some sort of track record I can verify.