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I have a newish1.6gpf Kohler Westport toilet.
I've noticed that after heavy usage, ie having guests over, it tends to clog. The water stays high in the bowl but after a few hours drops down to near empty and it seems ok. But then it happens again when it is used a lot. Does this mean there is a blockage a bit deeper in the pipe? All other drains still work fine and don't seem to affect the clogged toilet, so I don't think there are any problems with the house's main sewer line.
My questions for the fix-it types:
1) The toilet is bowl stays full of water and then siphons to empty after a few hours. Does that indeed mean there is water filling the entire pipe all the way to the clog and that it is slowly draining?
2) Should a toilet auger ($15) work or should I pay to get it professionally snaked ($75)?
3) When the toilet is working fine and I flush it, the flapper only stays open for about 2 seconds and the amount of water going in is about 25% of what is in the tank before the flapper shuts. Is all the water in the tank supposed to go into the bowl? Pardon the pun, but it seems like a crappy flush.
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[quote Wailer]3) When the toilet is working fine and I flush it, the flapper only stays open for about 2 seconds and the amount of water going in is about 25% of what is in the tank before the flapper shuts. Is all the water in the tank supposed to go into the bowl? Pardon the pun, but it seems like a crappy flush.
You might have Kohler's version of a dual-flush toilet. A "#1" flush (~0.8gal?? - a quick press of the handle) is designed to change out the liquid in the bowl, whereas a "#2" flush (1.6gal - press and hold the handle for a few seconds) empties any solids.
You can tell if you have the dual-flush tech by looking in the tank and seeing if you have little float attached between the flapper and the lever arm (mine is a blue foam cylinder).
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I don't think you have a stoppage.
To test, flush toilet paper several times. You'll know immediately if you have a stoppage.
ALWAYS hold the handle when you flush. Bout 2 seconds.
If you had a main line stoppage the lowest fixture would overflow first (bath or shower).
Sounds like a sluggish flush.
Good Luck
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[quote Wailer]1) The toilet is bowl stays full of water and then siphons to empty after a few hours. Does that indeed mean there is water filling the entire pipe all the way to the clog and that it is slowly draining?
Possibly. If you haven't already, try this method of plunging:
(1) With a full, clean bowl, insert the plunger.
(2) Slowly press the plunger - you are not trying to plunge, but just getting rid of air in the bell.
(3) Release the plunger, keeping it below the water line - this will fill the bell with water.
(4) Get a good seal around the drain and do a quick plunge down, with the release being somewhat slower than the push.
(5) Repeat once or twice - note that water will leave the bowl as you do this.
The other reason this might happen is that your vent might have a blockage - lowering the air pressure in the vent will suck water out of traps and toilets. But that is a much less prevalent problem than a simple blockage in the fixture.
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1) yes.
2) yes (either), though you may get results by using a plunger/plumber's helper properly.
The plunger should be slowly pressed down (to push air out of the rubber 'bell'), then alternately pulled then pushed (about 2-3 times per second), to loosen the blockage by letting air pressure on the other side of the blockage push back on the blockage.
The blockage is likely to be in the serpentine portion of the toilet between the bowl and the floor drain pipe connection. If the blockage were below that, you would have leakage/seepage from the wax seal at the floor connection point. Not good.
3) This is a contributing factor to the blockage; insufficient water flow & pressure to push the bowl contents through the serpentine into the drain pipe.
Is there a chain from the end of the handle arm inside the tank to the lip of the flapper?
If it has a lot of slack, then when you release the handle and the arm drops, the chain could pile on the flapper, weighting it down and forcing it to close early.
Or, the flapper is not holding air (to help it stay open), or there may be a foam insert (trapped air) which has deteriorated). A new flapper may be needed.
Enough guessing on my part; I defer to a real plumber, always. Mr. PlumbKing?
[Edit: I see he responded while I laboriously typed the above. Nevermind.]
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bowl level dropping is odd.
I'd be concerned another device is pulling it down due to suction ?
Can you go up on the roof and shine a light down the vent making sure there is no blockage on the vent end ?
Only thing that should affect bowl level is barometric pressure.
40 years of just my own toilet repairs , I'm not a pro plumber.
Or maybe a bowl crack.
Every waste side blockage I've encountered the bowl almost filled to the top while flushing.
That can be anything from a wad of paper towels to legos.
Except once at work we had bowl overflowing problems that was not any pipes in our building. A few months later every building's toilet on the street exploded backwards (what a stink) and everything's been fine since.
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Who am I to argue with plum-royalty, but it sure sounds like what you'd expect with improper venting.
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Hi, OP here.
Thanks for all the great advice and suggestions!
I think it's a deep clog because I noticed water coming from the wax seal where the bowl meets the floor. I think it leaks when the water in the siphon is under pressure (ie, being plunged).
Does it make sense that the serpentine siphon is full of water because of a deep clog and that is why after a few hours it siphons almost all the water out of the bowl?
It's raining too much here in CA to get on the roof to look at the ventilation pipe, but I think I may need to get it rootered.
Has anyone used and had success with the $15 augers that hook up to a drill?
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Rooting and messing with overlowing sewage is one of those unpleasant jobs that I gladly pay a king's ransom so as not to have to do it myself.
