congrats in order .....

[Fritz]

our mortgage provider, Countrywide, is now junk rated. The BoA bailout appears to be stumbling.

Bank of America says it may not want to back up all of Countrywide's debts after all. Instead, it may decide to put $31.8 billion of Countrywide's debts in a separate corporation. Analysts think Bank of America may later take that corporation into bankruptcy, stiffing Countrywide's bondholders.

Quelle suprise!

I can't wait not to hear from them every stinking day offing some new way to steal our money to bail their sorry butts out. They out offer the deals of His Royal Highness Mtume Spratneolitum.

It's only too bad the crooks that run the company will walk away even richer for having failed the company.

poot!

And Greenspan says the US is in a mild recession that may last the year, while UBS is thinking of dropping 8000 employees. Bet they don't think of it as a mild recession.

[Fritz]

-- moved topic --

[Chupa Chupa]

Actually it's the stockholders that get stiffed in a reorg. The bond holders are in or near the front of the line (depending) and usually get something. The shareholders most often end up with nothing. That said, that is the risk you take when you invest.

And no, we are NOT in recession, defined as two consecutive quarters of negative GDP. We haven't even had ONE negative quarter yet, despite everything that has gone on. The economy is not good, but it's not even close to what we experienced n the 70s much less the 30s.

[RgrF]

Use the rules that were in place originally and you'll find we ARE in recession. Since the Carter debacle, the politicos keep cooking the stat reporting to say what's not so, the media buys it whole hog.

TAKE IT TO THE BANK, WE ARE IN RECESSION.

[Fritz]

I agree. I think happy media political sales are at an all time high. The media thinks, and is somewhat right, that Americans are like mushrooms, feed them bull and keep them in the dark.
And let's wait to call it a recession until the bottom drops out.

[mattkime]

I think it remains to be seen. Our economy is a lot more than the financial sector, even if the finance guys don't want to hear it. The layoffs may have an impact but it will take 6 mo. for that to have an impact.

[Spock]

Yes we are in a recession. I'll take Warren Buffett's word for it.

"In a series of exclusive live appearances on CNBC's Squawk Box this morning, Warren Buffett told us that by a "common sense definition", the U.S. economy is already in a recession, even if it hasn't met the technical definition of two consecutive quarters of negative growth."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/23446988/

[tenders]

I do not understand why someone with a mortgage from Countrywide particularly cares about the fate of Countrywide's equity shareholders. The debt that BofA is waffling on has nothing to do with you.

In fact, Fritz, your mortgage is (or at least was, when it was originated) an ASSET to Countrywide.

BofA's debt discussions have to do with how Countrywide was able to purchase or originate your mortgage in the first place.

The debate on whether we are or are not in a technical recession is totally valid. There are reasonable views on both sides.

[Jimmypoo]

I think the question is more one of.... loans originated that were high risk... and when those properties are sold at a loss, who picks up that difference after all funds are exhausted? Someone holding those loans has too.... and if there isn't anyone left, then you start looking at tax dollars, ala Savings and Loan bailout.

[Fritz]

I'm not worried about Cwide or BoA or their shareholders, that's the chance you take on investment. I've done it.

It will be a drag for their employees that will get laid off for the greed of those above them.

Sign here.