School choice and test scores

[the_poochies]

Here is an interesting op-ed piece from a conservative writer in the NY Times.

The author cites a study showing that students who participated in Milwaukee's much-heralded school choice program scored no better than students enrolled in Milwaukee public schools. The article is less about the typical arguments over the pros and cons of school choice and more about the failure of standardized tests to judge real student performance.

He states:

finally acknowledge that standardized test scores are a terrible way to decide whether one school is better than another

We’ve known since the landmark Coleman Report of 1966, which was based on a study of more than 570,000 American students, that the measurable differences in schools explain little about differences in test scores. The reason for the perpetual disappointment is simple: Schools control only a small part of what goes into test scores.

Mrs. Poochie left a well-paid Wall Street job to become a public school teacher in my lower middle-class public school district that is mostly black and Latino. She feels that vouchers would siphon off any remaining decent students from her school into private ones, leaving her to teach the kids whose parents don't care about their child's education. She calls it "the public housing projects of education."

However, Little Poochie is a first grader at a local Catholic school, not due to the dissatisfaction with our public schools but due to the fact that I attended Catholic school for 16 years and that I would like L.P. to receive similar instruction (and because attending CCD at 8:30 am on a Sunday morning is too damn early!)

[cbelt3]

I agree whole-heartedly. And a better measure would involve 'following' the student afterward to see which ones were successful in life and which ones were not.

[mrbigstuff]

It's an imperfect system that everyone clamored for at the time. Everyone, that is, except the teachers, who knew at the time that there is no "right size" way to assess attainment.

Having said that, there is an obvious disparity between the lowest performing schools, in the poorest areas and the highest performing, in the wealthy suburbs. Also, I cannot think of a good way to assess quality of education, either, and that is the conundrum.

[Gutenberg]

I have come to think that most of it has to do with home. Kids whose parents want them educated will do well generally; kids whose parents are not interested will not do as well. And unfortunately there are many cities where a couple of generations have been so addled by drugs that their children are raising themselves--they are essentially feral.

[cbelt3]

Gutenberg wrote:
I have come to think that most of it has to do with home. Kids whose parents want them educated will do well generally; kids whose parents are not interested will not do as well. And unfortunately there are many cities where a couple of generations have been so addled by drugs that their children are raising themselves--they are essentially feral.

Bingo- Our friend who teaches in Cleveland tells us that less than 5% of the parents in her elementary school graduated from High School. And only ONE parent came to a parent-teacher conference. In 20 years.

[swampy]

Gutenberg hit the nail on the head. So much depends on the parents and their expectations for their children. A kid can survive a year with a bad teacher, but they're doomed if their parents don't care and/or are not involved in their education.

For the past 5 years I have been working in a local program that brings students and parents back to school in the evening. We supplement the student's school work and, teach the parents as well. We have a large number of immigrant parents who are learning English and reading through our program along with parenting skills. We have one 70 year old grandfather that never got beyond 2nd grade. He brings his grand kids (who are all doing well in school), but it has been his excuse to be there and learn how to read. He's now reading on a 10th grade level and wants to continue in order to get his high school GED. "Gramps" has been such an inspiration for both the kids and the teachers. He's now "sponsoring" two black students and bringing them to school. These two students would have been in jeopardy of being drop-outs, but "Gramps" took an interest in them, encourages them and they have made a tremendous turn around in their attitudes because they have someone who cares about them and believes in them.

[davester]

Exactly what Gutenberg said. This is why "No Child Left Behind", which is a punitive system based almost entirely on test scores has been a failure. NCLB assumes that low test scores = bad schools and teachers, an incredibly bad assumption. Another problem with NCLB and similar test-based programs is that they actually degrade the really excellent teaching/learning experiences by forcing all the teachers to stop what they're doing and instead "teach to the test".

[the_poochies]

davester wrote:
Exactly what Gutenberg said. This is why "No Child Left Behind", which is a punitive system based almost entirely on test scores has been a failure. NCLB assumes that low test scores = bad schools and teachers, an incredibly bad assumption. Another problem with NCLB and similar test-based programs is that they actually degrade the really excellent teaching/learning experiences by forcing all the teachers to stop what they're doing and instead "teach to the test".

I forgot to add above that Mrs. Poochie is not a fan of NCLB. All it has done is to create more expensive bureaucracy and takes teachers away from educating students and forces them to teach students how to score well on a standardized test.

cbelt3 wrote: I agree whole-heartedly. And a better measure would involve 'following' the student afterward to see which ones were successful in life and which ones were not.

This may be rather expensive and hard to do. Should we outfit every HS graduate with a GPS device so we can keep track of them? Can a successful academic career be measured simply by wealth? I agree with what you are saying but I think that implementation of your idea would be difficult given reality.

[davester]

If you've got 18 minutes to spare and you care about education, you really owe it to yourself to watch this:

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_sa...ivity.html

[cbelt3]

the_poochies wrote:
This may be rather expensive and hard to do. Should we outfit every HS graduate with a GPS device so we can keep track of them? Can a successful academic career be measured simply by wealth? I agree with what you are saying but I think that implementation of your idea would be difficult given reality.

Actually quite cheap if you can get measurements from the IRS.. Of course the boyz in da hood where our friend teaches do not pay taxes on their net income from selling crack and jacking cars. :confused:

And I agree with you. The real issue is that we Americans are fascinated with 'silver bullet' solutions.... the 'one measurement' or Key Process Indicator that will 'solve all our problems'. And that fascination causes our laws to become.. stupid.

Empirically a gestalt of the student's value to society is the measurement we wish to use. But personal 'value' means so much... is the penurious cleric who counsels thousands without compensation valued less than the wall street investment banker ? Or the murderous meth dealer valued higher than the high school chemistry teacher ?

There is a reason that most educational institutions were attached to religious organizations throughout the last millennium. The better measure of 'worth' and 'value' from society's perspective is best couched in terms like 'ethics' and 'morals' and 'service to others'. And, of course, the religious teachings of the second millennium were heavily focused on such things. The old Jesuit Philosophy of "Give me the boy and I'll give you the man" used the intellect and the faith to produce superior citizens.

In my humble opinion, it is the late 20th century drive to push ethics and morality OUT of our schools that has led to the collapse of the Public education system, and as a result our inner cities. The cry that "It's the parent's job to do that" is well founded, but when the parent is incapable or unwilling to take the child in hand, then who is left ?

Ultimately it becomes the job of the police and the prisons, because the teachers have been forbidden from providing basic instruction in being a good citizen.... and don't say that they take 'citizenship' class, knowing how government works has nothing to do with actually being a good citizen.