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+--- Thread: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Compile (/showthread.php?tid=95496)
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - M A V I C - 04-09-2010
OWC Larry wrote: Aren't we able to decide that for ourselves?
I honestly think most consumers aren't capable of making such a decision... at least not accurately. If there was some "dev mode" or something on the iPhone that would let people make the decision, I'd be fine with that. But looking at the inaccurate rants about Flash on this forum of savvy users... most consumers are going to be even less able to make an informed decision.
deckeda wrote:
Are you referring to what could be done using the so-called "web apps" that iPhone had to access prior to the AppStore's existence?
Yes and no. Yes in that they're similar. No in that they're not where near as capable.
deckeda wrote:
[quote=(vikm)]
Although it's not the main point of this post, it is absolutely acceptable for Apple to not want any Flash on the iPhone or iPad or whatever else they want to restrict it from working on.
If as they say, it is going to make the experience less than ideal whether it be draining the battery more quickly or whatever, then it's their call. If people need to have a device that runs Flash, buy a different one. If they allow it and it causes unneeded issues, indirectly gives their product a bad name and causes people to think less of their product it can't be a good thing. I've certainly no problem with Apple on this specific issue. The battery thing mentioned above bothers me a bit but not so much that I will buy something else instead.
It could be the main point of this post, if the participants believed it.
Not really. All of those issues vikm cited could be created with apps and web apps that the iPhone already supports. Also not really because this thread isn't talking so much about Flash on the iPhone, but Apple blocking Adobe from making an application that creates iPhone apps. That makes it clear that it's not just Apple wanting to block Flash because of some sort of user experience problem, but that there are ulterior motives.
Not only did they block Adobe with this move, this also blocks a few other companies as well. Apple is simply trying to keep their app system closed.
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - Article Accelerator - 04-09-2010
Seacrest wrote:
Maybe there are technical/hardware/"user experience" reasons for doing this, but I am now of the opinion that Apple is engaging in anti-competitive behaviors against Adobe.
I think this action is at least partially a response to Adobe's long-standing unequal treatment of the Mac platform. If adobe wants to play, it needs to become a player.
BTW, the prohibition may affect Adobe plans but, of course, would apply to anyone else with similar schemes. Therefore, I don't think it could be termed anti-competitive.
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - Article Accelerator - 04-09-2010
Gruber cited this:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1250946
"Adobe's Flash compiler is a classic maneuver to "commoditize your complements," as Joel put it so well. Apple don't want to be commoditized, especially if it means having apps that don't take advantage of the iPhone's strengths."
Well put!
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - deckeda - 04-09-2010
I still don't see how an app created from Flash origins, that necessarily passes through the AppStore like all the rest must, would "create a viable alternative to their AppStore."
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - M A V I C - 04-09-2010
deckeda wrote:
I still don't see how an app created from Flash origins, that necessarily passes through the AppStore like all the rest must, would "create a viable alternative to their AppStore."
It takes a bit of understanding of what all Flash can do and what an "interpretation layer" is.
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - deckeda - 04-09-2010
It's worth also linking the follow-up from Gruber, http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/why_apple_changed_section_331
I agree with his conclusions.
1) It was Apple's decision to make. (They don't "owe" devs the chance to stay ensconced in their favorite non-sanctioned environment, which seems to be the tone of devs not wanting to use the tools Apple mandates.) It's not an "ulterior motive," it's pretty clear what Apple wants, and why.
2) History shows that the likelihood of cross- or meta-compiled apps having the full user experience for every platforms is not good.
There are degrees of this. The Mac OS, being a desktop OS, is still a victim of apps that don't always act "Mac-like" to the extent that whenever a new app comes out that the dev is particularly proud of they'll herald the fact that it's Cocoa or that it uses this-or-that OS X technology. We can't even get full compliance on this from Apple, who only recently rewrote Quicktime in Cocoa—we're still waiting on things like iTunes and Final Cut Pro to be written as they really should.
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - deckeda - 04-09-2010
M A V I C wrote:
[quote=deckeda]
I still don't see how an app created from Flash origins, that necessarily passes through the AppStore like all the rest must, would "create a viable alternative to their AppStore."
It takes a bit of understanding of what all Flash can do and what an "interpretation layer" is.
I'm sorry, break down for me. I do something in Flash, use CS5 to turn it into an iPhone app, then what? The AppStore isn't needed? Bypassed? It's that in-between step I'm lacking here.
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - silvarios - 04-09-2010
I agree with deckeda. You are still making apps for the app store. This has nothing to do with bypassing the app store. Bypassing Apple's absolute control of the development process perhaps, not the app store.
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - M A V I C - 04-09-2010
deckeda wrote:
[quote=M A V I C]
[quote=deckeda]
I still don't see how an app created from Flash origins, that necessarily passes through the AppStore like all the rest must, would "create a viable alternative to their AppStore."
It takes a bit of understanding of what all Flash can do and what an "interpretation layer" is.
I'm sorry, break down for me. I do something in Flash, use CS5 to turn it into an iPhone app, then what? The AppStore isn't needed? Bypassed? It's that in-between step I'm lacking here.
If it's not something that you understand, I'd have to give you a big education on how Flash works. I don't have time for that, sorry
silvarios wrote:
I agree with deckeda. You are still making apps for the app store. This has nothing to do with bypassing the app store. Bypassing Apple's absolute control of the development process perhaps, not the app store.
Let me put it this way: just because you can't see how it would work, doesn't mean it wouldn't work. It just means you can't see it. I can see it fairly clearly, but that's probably because I know Flash fairly well.
Research interpretation layers a bit more, and I think you may understand how it would work. All a dev would have to do is create one app (through the app store) that acts as a layer for other apps to run on the iPhone.
Re: Apple puts legal knife into Adobe's CS5 - New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Com - deckeda - 04-09-2010
You're describing an alternative to what Cydia provides, because what you propose wouldn't see the light of day in the AppStore in the first place. Apple doesn't need to limit the dev tools someone uses in order to reject apps.