I out-earned Steve Jobs again this year

[Rick-o]

Sorry Paul F. and Wailer, I'm not buying that tired old song. Maybe it's my Union background that makes me so stupid, eh?

This country is falling apart for most folks, save for the filthy rich, you know, the ones who are always crying about losing their tax breaks, shelters, and lord knows what other sweetheart deals they always seem to garner with their hotshot lobbyists.

But, enough. I could go on, but this thread is already in danger of being tossed to the other side. Y'all have made up your minds, and so have I.

[OWC Jamie]

Ammo wrote:
What do people do with so much money?

The wife of one of my clients won several dozen million in a lottery.

A bit surprising what you've got to spend to keep it.


He also had to learn to be a bit nicer to his wife. :-)

[kj4btkljv]

billb wrote:
A bit surprising what you've got to spend to keep it.

What does that mean?

Jeff

[john dough]

One current client sold his business in 2010 for 8 figures (I know this because I was involved in the transaction). He started it in his house in the early 80s and worked 6-7 days a week, 12+ hours a day and did not take a vacation for many years. His wife worked with him at nights & weekends, in addition to working at her own job. The story would read that he sold his company for a LOT of money but behind the scenes, he was there, day in day out for years. His lean times and hard work paid off after almost 30 years.

He now works with at-risk teens and a local women's shelter, both pro-bono. Would not know it if you met him but he is rich by most standards. He still drives a 8 year old truck, flies Southwest when traveling and wears a beat up Timex. Money did not affect him, even though it could have.

[Buzz]

Does anybody have any idea of what the annual interest income is from the proceeds of the profit from Steve's sales of NeXT and Pixar. That alone, plus a buck from Apple, w/o any add'l perks is a very, very, very good year lifetime.

[Wailer]

Rick-o wrote:

This country is falling apart for most folks, save for the filthy rich, you know, the ones who are always crying about losing their tax breaks, shelters, and lord knows what other sweetheart deals they always seem to garner with their hotshot lobbyists.

I'm in agreement with this statement. I don't think everyone who earns a high salary is noble and many of them would quit their jobs and lounge on the beach if their lifestyle didn't require them to work. And I also agree that our current tax system is hardly progressive and that the wealthy should pay more. The current capital gains tax rate is a joke compared to what the a middle class American pays in combined fed, state, payroll, sales and property taxes.

Where we disagree is that I don't believe money is the end product for all successful entrepreneurs and that many would work even if they didn't get paid. One problem this country faces is that many of the most innovative people who are "wealthy enough" stop working and thus stop solving problems. I have tremendous respect for people who continue to work after they are financially independent. Most of these people, as john dough stated, are very frugal and want to give back to society.

Steve Jobs has made way more money for other people than he's made for himself. Apple paid over $4.5B in taxes on just corporate profits in 2010. Add in the amount of taxes paid by the employees and the capital gains paid by investors and "Apple venture" has likely contributed over a trillion to governments in just the 16 years since Steve came back. It has also provided hundreds of thousands of jobs for families to educate their children and allowed us to do our jobs better (if Steve Jobs didn't have to come back to Apple in 1994, Apple might have folded and we'd all be using Windows 3.1). The $5B Steve Jobs has made from Apple is far less than 1% of what Apple has contributed in taxes to our governments not to mention what he has given to the employees, investors and society.

I don't feel that the problems of this country are caused by the success of entrepreneurs. On the contrary, I think the best quality of this country is that an entrepreneur can be compensated for solving very tough problems by providing a valued service or product. It's even better If he provides taxpaying employees, union or non-union, a share or most of that wealth.

[RgrF]

Paul F. wrote:
[

You seem to be under the impression that it's a zero-sum game with a fixed amount of money.
It's not.
What Steve Jobs earns doesn't affect what ANYONE else is capable of earning. Create a great product or service, and you create brand new wealth that isn't taken from anyone.

Where do you think libraries, community centers, universities, etc get most of their donations from? Unions? No.. it's from people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates donating millions.

A good economics class or book will help you not sound stupid in the future ;-)

Not quite true. Most of the operating budget for these sort of institutions comes from taxes either as direct payments or in the form of tax deductible contributions. Only a handful of them are self-sustaining. Absent tax policy most of them would disappear.

So when a "philanthropist" makes that multimillionaire contribution remember that anywhere from a quarter to over a third of it is lost tax revenue.

Guess who makes up for the shortfall?

[Rick-o]

Wailer, nicely said. I concede to most everything you say, and you state your position much better than I ever could. Shows what a good education will do for you!

My beef really isn't at the guy who makes good through hard work and is out there solving the problems of the world. Hell, most of those folks probably don't give a flying flip about how much money they are making, as john dough remarks about one of his clients. I get that. When the revolution starts, most of those guys will probably get a pass. :villagers:

It's the heirs of the old money the was made several generations ago who now hold positions of influence and are making decisions that contribute to the eventual demise of our country (cough Walton heirs cough). I hate these worthless sacks of :censor: and I feel there are plenty of them out there that have one goal in mind, which is to amass as much wealth as possible, no matter what damage they cause to the rest of the world. I don't think a whole lot of those people are sitting on a beach for the rest of their lives having drinks served to them by gorgeous topless women! They are in our government, wall street, and corporate america, and I feel they are doing extreme damage.

Call me stupid, but that's what I believe.

[Wailer]

Rick-o wrote:

My beef really isn't at the guy who makes good through hard work and is out there solving the problems of the world. Hell, most of those folks probably don't give a flying flip about how much money they are making, as john dough remarks about one of his clients. I get that. When the revolution starts, most of those guys will probably get a pass. :villagers:

It's the heirs of the old money the was made several generations ago who now hold positions of influence and are making decisions that contribute to the eventual demise of our country (cough Walton heirs cough). I hate these worthless sacks of :censor: and I feel there are plenty of them out there that have one goal in mind, which is to amass as much wealth as possible, no matter what damage they cause to the rest of the world. I don't think a whole lot of those people are sitting on a beach for the rest of their lives having drinks served to them by gorgeous topless women! They are in our government, wall street, and corporate america, and I feel they are doing extreme damage.

Call me stupid, but that's what I believe.

I think you and I have the same fears and see the country going in the same direction. I admit that I had a huge head start in life simply because I came from an upper-middle class household and that going to and paying for ANY college was never an issue. If I knowingly had even a small trust fund waiting for me, I probably would have never worked a day in my life. A reasonable estate tax, unlike the joke one that was recently renewed, would be the easiest way to solve inequity problems in this country. There are a few people who have essentially "won the embyro lottery" by being born in ultra-wealthy families that are able to easily pass their wealth down. It does a disservice to the country and society and mostly to that individual. Some members of the Walton and Mars families inherited over a $1B and never worked a day in their life. I bet some of them are very innovative and could have started amazing businesses. It's their prerogative but I can't see how one can reflect on their life with any satisfaction if they just manage but don't create their wealth. I think that successful entrepreneurs are happy not because they made a ton of money but rather because they did something so valuable and the world rewarded them with money.

I think you are spot on on the problems with inequity and I agree with you. But I think the problem is with the way wealth is taxed and not on the people who create the wealth. We live in a plutocracy where wealth makes the rules. Unfortunately, there are some very vocal, short-sighted wealthy people who think the solution is to build more walls between the haves and the have-nots. If a revolt happens, I don't think the mob is going to discriminate between who started a business and who milked the system. They'll be out to extract their pound of flesh from wherever they can find it. The LA riots are a good example of mobs out to get whatever they can from whereever they can find it.