is Apple TV ever on sale at the refurb shop?

[Filliam H. Muffman]

guitarist wrote: The Apple TV is much, much better.

Why?

[Black]

But can the Apple TV be used as an All Terrain Vehicle as well?

[guitarist]

Filliam H. Muffman wrote:
[quote=guitarist]The Apple TV is much, much better.

Why?
Why is the Apple TV better at being at serving up movies to watch on TV? A short answer would be, because it's made by Apple instead of Dell. Does any more need to be said?

As they say, it's not rocket science. The reason it's better at displaying movies is because that's what the Apple TV is designed to do.

The Dell Mini (or any cheap-ass netbook with video out) can be jacked into the VGA port of a larger viewing display, and you can view movies from a folder of of movies on its hard drive (which won't get you far, since the Dell Mini's native hard drive has less storage than your average USB stick) or from free internet movie and TV sites like Hulu, or videos on YouTube, or from an externally-attached hard drive, or whatever you please. The only advantage is that you're able to view whatever "internet video" you like.

For some people, that's the only thing they care about. Watching movies on the internet for free. Anything that can't do that doesn't count. I don't care about that so much myself, I have a library of hundreds of DVDs stored on a hard drive, and enjoy collecting movies to watch on Apple TV.

A cheap laptop jacked into a flat screen display is an amusement, as a hobbyist, I enjoy it. But it's not in the same league as a multimedia appliance like an Apple TV. A Dell Mini's processor and graphics card are underpowered for the task of displaying high def movies. It struggles to adequately display standard definition movies. The image quality and frame suffer during fast motion scenes. I think a semi-new Mac Mini would make for a more robust media sever than an underpowered netbook.

Having said that, you can get some surprisingly good results with a cheap netbook, decent viewing, and have some fun. Compared to an appliance specifically designed for playing music and conveniently displaying movies (and instantly renting and buying movies, for those who wish to browse iTunes offerings) on a flat screen TV, a cheap netbook connected to a TV display isn't fair competition. The Apple TV's better processor, ease of use, and elegant interface make it a good value. Also, it's designed by Apple, not by Dell. Did I mention that?

[BernDog]

guitarist wrote:
[quote=Filliam H. Muffman]
[quote=guitarist]The Apple TV is much, much better.

Why?
Why is the Apple TV better at being at serving up movies to watch on TV? A short answer would be, because it's made by Apple instead of Dell. Does any more need to be said?

As they say, it's not rocket science. The reason it's better at displaying movies is because that's what the Apple TV is designed to do.

The Dell Mini (or any cheap-ass netbook with video out) can be jacked into the VGA port of a larger viewing display, and you can view movies from a folder of of movies on its hard drive (which won't get you far, since the Dell Mini's native hard drive has less storage than your average USB stick) or from free internet movie and TV sites like Hulu, or videos on YouTube, or from an externally-attached hard drive, or whatever you please. The only advantage is that you're able to view whatever "internet video" you like.

For some people, that's the only thing they care about. Watching movies on the internet for free. Anything that can't do that doesn't count. I don't care about that so much myself, I have a library of hundreds of DVDs stored on a hard drive, and enjoy collecting movies to watch on Apple TV.

A cheap laptop jacked into a flat screen display is an amusement, as a hobbyist, I enjoy it. But it's not in the same league as a multimedia appliance like an Apple TV. A Dell Mini's processor and graphics card are underpowered for the task of displaying high def movies. It struggles to adequately display standard definition movies. The image quality and frame suffer during fast motion scenes. I think a semi-new Mac Mini would make for a more robust media sever than an underpowered netbook.

Having said that, you can get some surprisingly good results with a cheap netbook, decent viewing, and have some fun. Compared to an appliance specifically designed for playing music and conveniently displaying movies (and instantly renting and buying movies, for those who wish to browse iTunes offerings) on a flat screen TV, a cheap netbook connected to a TV display isn't fair competition. The Apple TV's better processor, ease of use, and elegant interface make it a good value. Also, it's designed by Apple, not by Dell. Did I mention that?


ABSOLUTELY!!!

For any who may not understand what's involved, here's what I have to deal with to use my mini9 as media server. First, I have to hook up all the cables every time I want to use it, since I also use it as a casual surfing machine as well as access to the iMac downstairs via screen sharing. I have a USB IR receiver I use with an IR repeater behind a cabinet. That gets interference from my LCD TV for about 10 mintues after I turn it on, so the remote is unusable for that long. I have to use a 3rd party program, Mira (yes there are others...this is what I settled on and it does what I need it to) to be able to use a remote. I then bring up Front Row to view remotely stored movies. I can also access Plex and/or Boxee through the Front Row interface (through hacks). Yes, I can then watch web video as well, but both Plex and Boxee are immature and buggy so I don't do that much. Plus, if my 16GB flash module in the mini gets too full, Flash content chokes.

My EyeHome is basically plug and play (as would be an ATV). No, I can't use it for web-based Flash content, but as I stated, in real-world use it doesn't work that well from the couch anyway.

[Filliam H. Muffman]

Interesting that the Mini 9 has a newer and faster processor with streaming media extensions and 2 generations newer graphics and you are saying the ATV is better?

[BernDog]

Filliam H. Muffman wrote:
Interesting that the Mini 9 has a newer and faster processor with streaming media extensions and 2 generations newer graphics and you are saying the ATV is better?

What's under the hood vs. real-world usage are two completely different things. I have fun with my mini. It was worth it solely vs. a portable dvd player for the kids. Everything else is icing. It's fun to tinker, but it's no top-to-bottom media solution for sure. In addition to what I listed below, I also have to deal with resolution issues as I have the mini running through HDMI to my receiver and out to the tv. My tv is mounted on the wall with conduit for cabling. No room for VGA, and I didn't want to add even more complexity to my system anyway. ATV is made for TV.

[guitarist]

Filliam H. Muffman wrote:
Interesting that the Mini 9 has a newer and faster processor with streaming media extensions and 2 generations newer graphics and you are saying the ATV is better?

No, I'm not saying the ATV is better. I'm saying the Apple TV is better.

(ATV is an all terrain vehicle. Apple TV is an appliance for watching movies)

Filliam H. Huffman, are you pretending that the weak-ass processor and fifteen cent video card in the Dell Mini 9 cheap toy laptop is capable of producing home theater-like experience as convenient and as elegant and as affordable as an Apple TV? You'll excuse me if I don't find your question honest or credible. But I enjoy the humor.

[Filliam H. Muffman]

No humor. You remember the ATV has a fairly old mobile GPU?

Graphics comparison:
. . . . . . . . . pixel. . . . . . .fill rate. . . . Memory . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . pipelines. . . . GT/s. . . . . Bandwidth . . VRAM. . . . . .
GMA950 . . . 4. . . . . . . . . .1.6 . . . . . . . .10.7 . . . . . 192 MB (with 2 GB installed).
Go 7300 . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . 1.4 . . . . . . . . .5.6 . . . . . . 64 MB. . . .

They each have their own limitations but I am not sure the Mini 9 is as bad as you imagine. Running the stripped down OS in the ATV and relying on another computer to stream video to it does really reduce the processing requirements for it.

[guitarist]

I suspect you've not seen with your eyeballs a movie displayed via Apple TV, or a movie displayed by a Dell Mini 9 netbook that's been hacked and customized to act sort of like an Apple TV. If you could just watch each, I'm fairly sure you'd come to the same conclusion.

As it is, I think you're measuring theoretical performance differences between two sets of specs. Evaluating what it looks like on paper.

In actual use, the Mini 9 struggles to draw movies on the screen, hiccups, ever so slightly, and gets very hot. When pushing a video, it pauses for a microsecond every three seconds, in regular cycles. If it were a DVD player, this would be unacceptable, it would be boxed up and returned for a refund. The results are inferior.

But the Mini 9 fun to screw around with anyway. It satisfies the hacker-customizer-tweaker urge. Even though it's vastly more inconvenient to use, it's not without its geeky pleasures.