I ran into a real life consquence of the steel tariffs

[Acer]

500lb minimum for steel scrap purchases at the site I found. If indeed there is new paperwork, it could conceivably tip the balance away from small purchases being worth the effort. Come in with a dumpster full and he'll find the time for the paperwork.

BTW, Copper is circa $2.00/lb, aluminum is circa $0.75/lb. Best money looks to be in catalytic converters, at $40 to $170+ each.

[NewtonMP2100]

....stolen.....

[max]

JoeH wrote:
[quote=max]
[quote=GGD]
Ever since the tariffs went into effect it was becoming more difficult to get anyone to take away their steel, too much paperwork related to proving the origin of the steel is what I understood the problem to be..

Total BS, there is no such requirement for scrap.....
Total assumption on your part, many states have such requirements on scrap due to theft. . Talk about total asssumptions on your part.
For one the OP was about steel, not copper.
Please show us which states have such requirements on scrap steel, JoeH, due to theft.

Second, the listed claim about the purported steel paperwork was blamed due to tariffs, not local rules.

The copper problem is quite a different animal and quite pervasive, but it was not the subject under discussion, was it, JoeH?
In fact when we dispose of our aluminum and copper scrap the local rules require not only recording of the photo ID but also a pictures of the seller....

[Sarcany]

Lots of restrictions by state. Most regs don't discriminate between copper and steel scrap. Dunno what the tariffs add...

https://iscrapapp.com/blog/us-scrap-meta...-by-state/

[Speedy]

I hauled dismantled and mangled bridge beams from freeway reconstruction to a scrap yard a decade ago (80,000 pound gross vehicle weight). They had a camera positioned to take a photo of the front of the truck and me as I checked in on the scale. I was on the ground outside at a window checking in and they would tell me when to turn to look at the camera. They did the same when I weighed out empty - for whatever reason.

Scarey loads to chain and unchain. When loading on the construction site they kept the grapple holding the load until you had two chains secured. When at the scrap yard you had one chain on the very tail end of the load that you took off last lest the load tumble off. They were too busy doing other things to hold your load while you unchained.

[Sarcany]

Ah! It's probably not the tariffs. It's China's ban on taking US waste/recycling.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-recycli...1533231057

U.S. Recycling Companies Face Upheaval from China Scrap Ban

Top waste-services companies say their recycling operations are a drag on earnings as business with their biggest foreign market disappears

The top two solid waste services companies in the U.S., Waste Management Inc. and Republic Services Inc., both recently pulled back profit projections in their recycling divisions based on China’s new policies, which have created a glut in scrap markets and sent global prices for scrap material plummeting.

“At this point in time, we have zero volume going to China,” said Richard Coupland, vice president of municipal sales at Republic Services. “We are still able to move material, but our economic model is completely upside down.” ...

Republic Services processes about 6 million tons of paper, glass, plastics and other materials for recycling each year under contracts with roughly 2,400 municipalities in 40 U.S. states and Puerto Rico. Before this year, about 40% of that was shipped to scrap buyers in China who would break it down and make new boxes, packaging, toys and other goods.

It was cheap for recycling collectors to send scrap to China because ocean carriers offered deeply discounted prices to get shipping containers back to Asia after they had arrived at U.S. ports packed with goods made in Chinese factories. “We were happy to send material back in them for pennies on the dollar,” Mr. Coupland said.

Now it’s gotten more complicated. Mr. Coupland said Republic Services has found new buyers in Malaysia, India and other markets, but fewer ships make direct trips there from the U.S., driving up transportation costs. Global prices for used materials have plummeted, so Republic loses money on most of the recycled scrap it now sells overseas.

That cost is increasingly likely to get passed along to U.S. households and businesses.

[max]

Speedy wrote:
I hauled dismantled and mangled bridge beams from freeway reconstruction to a scrap yard a decade ago (80,000 pound gross vehicle weight). They had a camera positioned to take a photo of the front of the truck and me as I checked in on the scale. I was on the ground outside at a window checking in and they would tell me when to turn to look at the camera. They did the same when I weighed out empty - for whatever reason.
.

Most yards will do that, again, mostly because of copper and aluminum thefts,
Nobody bothers about the steel, today, it is too cheap, not worth the effort.
We have to get rid of our metal scrap and nobody wants to touch iron part of it, we have to make package deals.

It has absolutely nothing to do with tariffs....

[JoeH]

They still document the source for all scrap, and yes max that includes steel. Large amounts of steel still get processed, small amounts are not worth the time to document. They have to meet state requirements, as Sarcany points out and links to, the restrictions and documentation requirements do not distinguish by the type of scrap metal.

From Sarcany's link, here is the summary for my state of MA:

Records: Scrap yards in Massachusetts are required to keep records of all purchases for 2 years and are subject to inspection from authorities.

Tag & Hold: There is a 10-day minimum for tagging and holding for scrap yards in Massachusetts.

Transactions: Any purchases must be sent within 48 hours to the Criminal System.

Photos & Video: Photos and video must be taken for each purchase and kept on record.

License Plate: Car information and license plate number must be recorded in the system when selling to Massachusetts scrap yards.

The regulations are similar in the states around MA. Notice no mention at any time of material type.

As for whether the tariffs were involved, the OP wrote that was his understanding from what the scrap dealer was telling him. There could have been a misunderstanding on either person's part. In any case, the drop in prices caused by China's ban on taking most scrap and recyclables has made the amount a recycler can get for steel less. That leaves less revenue to cover documentation.

[OWC Jamie]

China's banning of many polluting waste products is based on its current war on pollution, moving the economy and country up the supply chain and has absolutely nothing to do with tariffs. Nor Russians.
China no longer wants to be the world's dump and solution for the world's wastes.

They've also gotten quite picky on recyclables which is driving changes in the current recycling business model and driving up recycling costs locally.
Also nothing to do with tariffs, or Russians.

The scrap yards around here have been made the point of enforcement for all manner of stolen materials, doesn't matter what they are made of. They can no longer receive stolen goods and not be penalized.No yard is questioning where that scrap oven came from but they will refuse to accept a government owned manhole cover.

[pdq]

Yes, China no longer taking our waste for recycling has absolutely nothing to do with the ostensible spokesperson for the West saying that they're abusing our trade relationship and stealing from us, and then slapping tariffs on them willy-nilly.

Absolutely unrelated. Totally crazy to think a sudden change in Chinese policy had anything to do with 45's near-daily verbal abuse. Our relationship with China has never been stronger.

:RollingEyesSmiley5: