Apparently I'm no longer a red light camera virgin

[Robert M]

Dek,

I live on Long Island and drive within the city limits regularly. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't anything in place to warn you of the cameras. You learn the hard way, via word of mouth or by recognition. I know people who got photo'd by the camera for what they thought was a stale yellow when in fact they didn't quite make it through the intersection in time.

Robert

[RAMd®d]

I'm all for Red Light Cameras and Draconian traffic enforcement, and realize that many people disagree for whatever reasons.

But cameras have to be used ethically, which does not include warning signs.

I think it was San Jose CA that had them installed and the company that runs them (NOT the PD) shortened the yellow lights to less than that of the state-required standard.

This meant that people inclined to "beat the red" couldn't and a lot of cites were issued. And they all had to be recalled.

Used properly, I like the cameras.

There's the joke/urban legend about somebody getting a RLC cite in the mail and sending back a picture of a check. In turn, they received a picture of a set of cuffs. It still cracks me up.

[mattkime]

I'm against red light cameras being used as a revenue stream but there are definitely places where they can be used effectively.

I bike over the queensboro bridge twice a day. on the queens side of the bridge is a pedestrian crossing that transverses 6 lanes of traffic below above ground subway. I've seen a number of people nearly hit because drivers didn't see a reason to obey the lights. Its a bad intersection made worse by inattentive driving.

[Robert M]

RAM,

I'm with you all the way despite my hatred of red light cameras. People can disagree all they want but so many problems on the road including collisions could be easily reduced if people would simply follow traffic laws. If red light cameras help even just a little, then they are worth it to me. Now if only they could do something about drivers who blow through stop signs...

Robert

[deckeda]

Robert, your stance sounds an awful lot like "the ends justify the means." Care to re-think it? How can you simultaneously "hate" them and consider them universally a good idea? Who? For others?

Keep in mind that despite the DOT logo on the invoice, this handled like a parking ticket: by the city's Finance Dept., and at no point is a judge or court involved, not even if you contest it. It's simply a bill to be paid.

Deterrent? Well, if you can't afford $50, but since your license isn't affected, violators stay on the road.

For the curious, this is the intersection:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=nyc%2012th%20and%2057th&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wl

The approach on 12th is heading onto Henry Hudson Pkwy, so the natural effect is one of a horse seeing the barn. 57th is a one-way onto 12th. This isn't a 4-way intersection and there's a barrier between north and south traffic; an accident from on-coming traffic, or traffic from the left is not possible. I'd be interested to learn how many accidents have occurred there. I'll bet $50 it's not a tremendous amount, but then again this isn't about safety, and NY acknowledges it by not trying to keep you off the road.

I'll probably check with my state but pay the $50. The odds aren't in my favor of even finding out any information anywhere, such as what's NY's yellow-light standard, and what's that intersection's timing?

Anyone NYC locals got a camcorder and care to film it, and include the timecode? If it doesn't last as long as NY's law says it should I'll pay you to send it to me. I'd far rather spend $50 on a tape and an hour of your time and postage.

It's interesting that if you get a speeding ticket from a cop, the ticket references how or when the detection device was calibrated. Not so with yellow lights. It's assumed.

Red light cameras are controversial. In some cases they reduce the number of red light runners (and as has been mentioned, if the yellow was shortened it's an empty victory), in some cases they don't, in other cases they increase accidents. What's not controversial is that lengthening the yellow has been shown to reduce red light running. Too bad you can't make money off that.

How many of you would be willing to wait say, and extra 2 seconds at a light instead?

[Robert M]

Dekeda,

My stance sounds like "the ends justify the means" because I agree with that sentiment. I can appreciate the good that can come of the cameras, despite not liking them. The cameras are worthwhile if they can reduce the number of drivers who run red lights even if just by a small amount.

I understand the tickets are treated like parking fines and that violators stay on the road. However, I know people who have gotten the tickets and now drive more carefully as a result, partially because of the safety issues and partially because they don't want to have to pay another fine.

So, in that level, the cameras worked. In some cases not because of the right reasons but they worked nonetheless.

Robert

[deckeda]

Robert, I'm not clear on why you wouldn't like red light cameras. Would you prefer police that patrol instead? If so, how are they "better"? I'm not trying to goad you here, I'm just curious what you think.

> The cameras are worthwhile if they can reduce the number of drivers who run red lights even if just by a small amount.

Assuming the yellow is long enough, correct? Or is it assumed long enough?

> I know people who have gotten the tickets and now drive more carefully

Assuming they were unsafe previously, correct? As opposed to their government telling them they were unsafe? Is there a difference, for you?

[Grumpyguy]

a free people should not abide red light cameras. Period.

In fact Cincinnati is now fighting them and I sent them $35 for their cause. http://wedemandavote.com/

When cities deal with piss poor schools, drugs, murder, rape, robbery, and crimes against property first....oh wait, none of them involve a revenue stream.

[dk62]

I'd rather see them enforce school bus rules in Queens.

Having said that, not paying a non-moving violation ticket can result in a collection agency pursuing you and having negative credit consequnces. NY DOT will share your registration info with credit collection agencies even if you check the box forbidding sharing data with unrelated entities when registering. I got a complete bogus parking ticket in Rhode Island when I lived in NY, did not pay it as I got rid of the car and moved, and then got a collection agency letter when I re-registered the car in another city in NY a year later. At that point I had to pay it to avoid credit issues, but the great state of RI will never see a cent of my tourist dollar again.

[Robert M]

Dek,

Reasonable questions. Hopefully, what I say here will clarify things a bit... I would definitely prefer to see more officers patrolling the roads and handing out tickets. To me, that’s more tangible and not treated nearly as lightly as a ticket received via a red light camera. And, has a greater long term impact on the driver possibly to the point where some will hopefully permanently change their driving habits, i.e. increased insurance costs, points on license, possible loss of license depending on number of points, etc.

As for the red light cameras, I am working under the assumption they are installed and used sparingly and appropriately. I think of them as a necessary evil because of their issues (issues others have pointed out). And yes, I am assuming that many of the people who run red lights do it so on a regular basis even if unintentionally. How many times have you seen someone approach a yellow light speed up with the intention of “beating” it only to fall short? Or, instead of just one, seen two or even three drivers make a left turn long after the light has turned red?

I see this on a daily basis and often at the very same intersections. It’s very frustrating and at times scary, especially when you nearly get hit by one of these morans. And that’s despite waiting an extra second prior to entering the intersection.

Robert