Reform? Why do we need health-care reform? Everything is just fine the way it is.

[Dennis S]

Dakota wrote: Not unexpected from people who need a 137 page manual how to buy a used car.

And you talk about one-trick-ponies?

[Mac1337]

john dough wrote:
[quote=Dakota]
People aren't buying what Obama is selling. You are losing it and you know it. Why? Because we have been down this road before,

When Medicare was being considered in the mid-1960s, the government projected that the outlays for the program 25 years down the road would be $10 billion. Instead, in 1990, 25 years later, the outlays were $107 billion. Government estimates were off by a factor of more than 10!

Medicaid, the other large medical program currently in effect, outdid Medicare. Medicaid outlays in 1968 were $1.8 billion. In 2007 they had risen to $190.6 billion, an increase in dollar terms of 105.9 times.

Not unexpected from people who need a 137 page manual how to buy a used car.

More noise from someone who is determined to shill for the corporations. Most people polled support changing the system, no matter how many times you think they are not.

Almost 3/4 of those polled say so:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health....html?_r=1

You can pound out your opinions or post skewed results from Fox news or other right wing attack sites, but the facts are things are changing as the path we are currently on is unsustainable. If we do nothing, your costs are not going to get better as the companies will only raise our rates more.

Even if the numbers that you say were valid, it completely pales in the amount that was spent in the last 8 years on 2 wars that directly contributed to many problems we have now. And where did that get us? So some companies can carve out Iraq for their oil business? Where is the money that would be repaid us from all of the money that they are making because of the oil? Last time I checked, Iraq is sitting on a pile of cash while we don't have enough to take care of our own sick.

This country was neglected by Bush and Cheney yet when we did not agree with their ways, we were labeled as bad Americans. The reality was irresponsible spending, blank contracts, missing funds, no-bid contracts to cronies, failure to fully document cash outlays -- how is pointing out that folks were doing rotten make the accuser the bad guy? Your party has no case to point fingers when it comes to money, after the last 8 years of your party in charge. Deny it all you want, that administration was awful and no spin will change their legacy.
You missed mentioning Haliburton, Rumsfeld and WMD. You are slipping.

[OWC Jamie]

Everyone's too busy working to pay thier cel, viagra and cable bills.
That should all be free, too.
While you'ra at it, I want a McMansion with free heat and electric , too.

[Lux Interior]

billb wrote:
Everyone's too busy working to pay thier cel, viagra and cable bills.
That should all be free, too.
While you'ra at it, I want a McMansion with free heat and electric , too.

Ben Stein already covered that angle.

[OWC Jamie]

[Lux Interior]

I think you wanted Emily, but knowing your penchant for non-sequiturs, you probably went with Rosanna.

[OWC Jamie]

because babba wawwa couldn't possibly have had anything to digress regarding Ben Stein.

But, if "never mind" is simpler and works for you, so be it.

[the_poochies]

Much of this discussion (well, at least the posts that don't include personal attacks) deal with accountability.

Private, for-profit health insurance is set up to benefit shareholders. Not patients. Shareholders.

Pharmaceutical companies are set up to benefit shareholders. Not patients, shareholders.

Horizon BCBS, the largest health insurer in my state that is legally a nonprofit, pays its CEO some $6 million annually and is being accused of pressuring patients to leave the hospital early so it can save some dough. http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/ind...299310.xml&coll=1

Horizon also has been accused of awarding bonuses to reps who drop patients.

And Big Pharma isn't much better. If you're a doctor or patient looking for objective answers on your medical condition, be aware that Wyeth is under investigation for hiring medical-writing firms to ghostwrite articles that appeared in seemingly objective medical journals but included only the name of a scientific researcher as the author. http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/ind...299310.xml&coll=1

And if you're looking for some number crunching on the cost of public vs. private health care, I'd recommend you avoid Lewin Group. Lewin is part of Ingenix, a UnitedHealth subsidiary that was accused by the New York attorney general and the American Medical Association of helping insurers shift medical expenses to consumers by distributing skewed data and covering up data that didn't reflect Lewin's corporate parent favorably.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...s_politics

[Mac1337]

the_poochies wrote:

Private, for-profit health insurance is set up to benefit shareholders. Not patients. Shareholders.

Pharmaceutical companies are set up to benefit shareholders. Not patients, shareholders.

So shareholders keep buying the shares of health insurance companies that kill their patients while their stock price keeps going up? Interesting business models you got going there? You are not a financial advisor by any chance, are you?

[Z]

Dakota wrote:
[quote=the_poochies]

Private, for-profit health insurance is set up to benefit shareholders. Not patients. Shareholders.

Pharmaceutical companies are set up to benefit shareholders. Not patients, shareholders.

So shareholders keep buying the shares of health insurance companies that kill their patients while their stock price keeps going up? Interesting business models you got going there? You are not a financial advisor by any chance, are you?
Willful ignorance by both you and the shareholders doesn't make it right.